worldrecordplayer Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 No doubt EC's put out some very "blah" songs/albums in his career. But I am equally of no doubt that Layla is one of the greatest albums put out by any artist (or collection of artists) at any time in any genre. I don't think it's damn near perfect, I think it is perfect! To this day, I still find Clapton's guitar playing brilliant. Not just technically proficient, but emotional. He's one of the few who make the guitar speak and sing. I don't see him live that often. The last time I saw him on stage was when he played with the Allman Brothers for the first time ever at the Beacon on 3-19-09 during the Duane tribute run. And they ripped on all those Layla tunes. One of the top concert moments of my life. (I've got a very good dvd of that set). Prior to that, I last saw him when he was touring with Derek Trucks in his band. Another night that dropped my jaw. So I'm looking forward to Crossroads. Hope to get another chance to hear Clapton play with the Allmans, and catch a number of guitar players that I'm looking forward to hearing.This is what I'm talking about... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shug Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 worldrecordplayer, you are a lucky dude to have seen those Clapton sit ins with the Allmans in 2009. That would've been one of my all time concert highlights, too. I also missed the Clapton tour when Derek was in the band. And I missed Clapton's 1994 tour for From The Cradle. Hope he sits in with the Allmans again next month for ya! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 You guys are freaking brilliant. I could have sat here all day and talked about how I like the guy but always found him rather bland, insipid, etc., as a blues player, but I never in a million years would have identified the Gibson vs. Strat issue. That is probably a huge part of what bothers me (that, and songs like the heartfelt but dreadfully sentimental Tears In Heaven, which I hate to even criticize, due to its connection to the actual tragedy that inspired it, but still...)As for Clapton playing blues tunes, I'm sorry, but I still don't think he's anywhere close to Buddy Guy's league. There's a reason Buddy is Clapton's hero, and not vice versa. For those who dig him, hey, great. Enjoy! Don't take someone else's critique too much to heart. It's all just feeling, opinion, etc.Here is a nice clip of Buddy demonstrating how to out-Clapton Clapton. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think it's about guitars. I think he just changed with the times. And he probably had a record company on his back to produce hit records at various points along the way. I just listen to the stuff of his I like and go with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GtrPlyr Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Clapton sorta lost me after Derek & The Dominoes, but what a great record that was/is. Probably the last time there was some true inspiration in his singing and playing. I must admit I've always thought Clapton to be one of the most overrated guitarists in rock. I think he's a good regurgitator of his blues influences but not all that original when you really take a closer look. As for the switch from Gibson to Strats being his downfall. I don't see it. It's not the Strat's fault it was the damn Chorus effects and other processing he was using that totally watered down his sound. Stevie Ray Vaughan basically used a Strat, a tube amp and a tube screamer and his sound was full and powerful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PopTodd Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Stevie Ray Vaughan basically used a Strat, a tube amp and a tube screamer and his sound was full and powerful.Totally agree.But, then, SRV also strung up his Strat with 0.13s. He also had the strength to bend those telephone cables up just about 2 full steps! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
worldrecordplayer Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Definitely not buying this Gibson v. Strat issue. When did he last play a Gibson, in Cream? He played a Strat (Brownie) on Layla and when he toured Derek and the Dominos, so that puts that argument to rest for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 And he used a Telecaster (sometimes a Les Paul) during the Blind Faith era. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 And with the Yardbirds, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I believe you are right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shug Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Well, like Gtrplyr and PopTodd noted, some players can make a Strat sound fat, like SRV famously did, and Clapton's tone is pretty bad ass in that early 90s version of Don't Think Twice and lots of other examples. When Dickey Betts started playing a Strat instead of a Les Paul, though, his sound got a lot worse to my ears. There's surely other factors, like folks noted, the gauge of the strings and the amps and effects and a lot of it must be in the hands of the player. I think Clapton's tone got a lot thinner after Cream and maybe after Blind Faith, but definitely by his first solo album and Layla. It was a different sound for him but he was still creating some of the best music of his life. One of the things that I think made Layla so great is that you had Clapton on a Strat and Duane Allman on a Gibson. It was a masterful blending of contrasting but complementary tones. But even without Duane in the Derek & Dominoes live shows, as worldrecordplayer said, Clapton was wailing and getting a really good tone out of a Strat, to my ears. Also in 1974 in The Last Waltz. Where Clapton lost me for awhile was when he adopted the JJ Cale style in 1976? Just too laid back and mellow for my tastes. I like intensity in guitar playing. The late 70s and 80s were a low point and then things got back on track with From The Cradle in the early 90s, that is a masterpiece to my ears. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think that is a good way to put it - laid back and mellow. I think that is called "The Tulsa Sound". I was going to say I don't own any Clapton solo albums, but I actually have a copy of Backless that someone gave me years ago. Speaking of sound, one of things I don't like about the Layla album is that some of the songs were "sped up". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anthony Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 SInce I kinda started the Strat v Gibson debate, let me offer another heretical viewpoint: I don't like SRV's tone either. Too shrill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I must admit I've always thought Clapton to be one of the most overrated guitarists in rock. Again, I'm completely astonished... While My Guitar Gently Weeps.... Enough said... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
worldrecordplayer Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Again, I'm completely astonished... While My Guitar Gently Weeps.... Enough said...And again, me too lamrod! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Clapton is a legend, so of course, many people consider him one of the greats. Not really surprising that not everyone thinks so.I happen to be a huge Zappa fanatic (as my icon indicates), and consider him one of rock's most underrated guitarists; by contrast, I find Clapton to be pretty tame. Kinda like a bluesier version of David Gilmour. Don't get me wrong, I like Gilmour okay, but he's not on my short list of top guitarists either, though I would rate him much higher than Clapton.Some of us like guitar that is either a little more "unhinged-sounding," for lack of a better phrase. I'm thinking of FZ, but also Hendrix, Buddy Guy, John McLaughlin, etc. Hell, when it comes to white boy blues, I would say I am more impressed by Kenny Wayne Shepherd than ol' Eric. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I would say I am more impressed by Kenny Wayne Shepherd than ol' Eric. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth. I best stay out of this thread... There's Hendrix, SRV, Jimmie Page, and Eric Clapton. The four fathers of the guitar, hands down, no question.. That's all I'm going to say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't know about all that, but Eric was Jimi's hero. It's one of the reasons he came to England. Chas told him him knew Eric, and could arrange a meeting/jam. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't know about all that We're talking about, rock, blues guitarists here. Yes there are the one's before them that basically invented the guitar methods and sound (the early blues and jazz greats, the Grandfathers), but referring to the guys that revolutionized modern rock/blues guitar and have influenced everyone playing the guitar today in some shape or form. There are many others that have contributed (Gilmour, Zappa, Beck, Allman, many others), but Hendrix, Page, Clapton, and SRV are the fathers. I heard Clapton was Jimi's hero too... That's saying something.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 You forgot Jeff Beck and Peter Green (and a whole bunch of others that other people can name). I suppose what I was thinking of was the trinity - Page/Beck/Clapton. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Definitely not buying this Gibson v. Strat issue. When did he last play a Gibson, in Cream? He played a Strat (Brownie) on Layla and when he toured Derek and the Dominos, so that puts that argument to rest for me. He was playing the strat in combination with Duane's Les Paul. Strats and Les Pauls are a beautiful combination, but a Strat alone can be pretty dicey. Eric played a Gibson holowbody on a recent tour (maybe the Derek Trucks tour?) and his sound on that guitar was noticably different (and better, imo) than the sound he gets from a strat. And with the Yardbirds, right? I can't say for sure, but I've only seen photos/video of him with a Tele with the Yardbirds. He might not have gotten to the Les Paul until he joined up woth John Mayall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Again, I'm completely astonished... While My Guitar Gently Weeps.... Enough said...Context is everything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 You forgot Jeff Beck and Peter Green (and a whole bunch of others that other people can name). I suppose what I was thinking of was the trinity - Page/Beck/Clapton. I didn't forget Beck, but good point about Green. Like I mentioned, there are many contributors. Keith Richards is another one... But the guys that top the list are the one's I listed.. I thought this was common knowledge. Folks saying that Clapton is overrated is just preposterous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Peter Green is another of those early greats. Again, much prefer him to Clapton. It's just all about personal preference.By the way, SRV was only 10 years old in 1964, and his career as a musician didn't really take off until the late 70s to early 80s. Not exactly one of the "fathers." Just sayin'... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Peter Green is another of those early greats. Again, much prefer him to Clapton. It's just all about personal preference.By the way, SRV was only 10 years old in 1964, and his career as a musician didn't really take off until the late 70s to early 80s. Not exactly one of the "fathers." Just sayin'... You have a point about SRV.. And I agree that it is about personal preference.. I am speaking for what is generally known among the masses.. It's just that this is the first I have heard of negative comments towards Clapton's guitar playing, and I'm having a hard time computing it.. (lol). His song writing is another story, he had some weak years in that department. One thing you and I can agree on, Zappa was a freaking madman on the guitar and a musical genius. Influential? Hugely. As influential as Clapton? Not hardly. I think this article explains it well: Eric Clapton is the most important and influential guitar player that has ever lived, is still living or ever will live. Do yourself a favor, and don't debate me on this. Before Clapton, rock guitar was the Chuck Berry method, modernized by Keith Richards, and the rockabilly sound — Scotty Moore, Carl Perkins, Cliff Gallup — popularized by George Harrison. Clapton absorbed that, then introduced the essence of black electric blues: the power and vocabulary of Buddy Guy, Hubert Sumlin and the three Kings — B.B., Albert and Freddie — to create an attack that defined the fundamentals of rock & roll lead guitar.Maybe most important of all, he turned the amp up — to 11. That alone blew everybody's mind in the mid-Sixties. Full article: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-artists-of-all-time-19691231/eric-clapton-20110420 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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