Tragedy in the land of the Hokies

[Analogman]

Yeah, the coverage is pretty gross, with student testimonials about how weird he was, and news segments like "Profile of a Killer," narrated in the scary announcer guy voice.

 

At least Marilyn Manson has not got blamed yet -

[LouieB]

Virgiinia apparenly has some of the laxest gun laws in the country, not that that would have stopped this guy either...

 

LouieB

[renic]

At least Marilyn Manson has not got blamed yet -

 

 

its still early.

[MattZ]

Not sure if it is BS or not, but someone just forwarded me two plays that the guy apparently wrote. I started reading one of them and then had this horrible, bizarre and sinking feeling that this sicko hoped that people would be reading his stuff. So, I stopped reading. I feel sick now.

[quarter23cd]

At least Marilyn Manson has not got blamed yet -

He doesn't really have the star-power anymore to really scare people. He's about a season or two away from appearing on Dancing With the Stars...

[Guest Speed Racer]

Eh, I read them. The worst part about them is how bad they are. Forget violence, it's just awful writing. Clearly, he was working through some things he never did get sorted out.

[Analogman]

That is one of those things that will always be debated I guess -

 

If you play the video game Mall Sniper, listen to death metal, and watch ripper films - does that make you do this sort of thing?

 

Or is it because you have a screw loose to begin with -

 

I say this as I have noticed that there are some people saying video games are to blame.

 

From what I heard, the dude listened to Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, and Collective Soul.

 

I doubt David Koresh ever sat around playing video games - but he was certainly into rock music.

[gogo]

People who organize their friends into a book club and listen to bluegrass commit murder, too.

 

I think a lot of those video games are disgusting, but I really doubt they're causing anyone to kill, who wouldn't have been headed in that direction anyway.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Kids who want to be pastors go to Bible study, but not all kids who go to Bible study become pastors.

[Analogman]

Although I never wanted to take such classes, I had this Soc 1 class in college - and the professor had quite a bit to say about the whole paper tiger deal and things of this nature - it was interesting.

[jenbobblehead]

i wonder how many kids who went to bible study end up as mass murderers. Or conversely, how many mass murderers were bible study kids.

[Analogman]

i wonder how many kids who went to bible study end up as mass murderers. Or conversely, how many mass murderers were bible study kids.

 

Jim Jones

 

David Koresh

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Jim Jones

 

David Koresh

 

 

While Jim Jones and David Koresh were disturbed, psychopatic cult leaders, it is not entirely accurate to call them mass murderers.

 

They were a different example of the venality into which humans can descend.

[M. (hristine]

Honestly, it surprises me that these things don't occur more often. I would wager that there are thousands of people walking around this country with the same suicidal/homicidal impulses.

 

I saw interviews this morning with the chair of the English department who tutored this boy because the teacher and students in Creative Writing class were afraid to be in class with him, as well as his roommmates who called the cops because he was stalking one of their friends. This WAS NOT a case of a dude that just fell through the cracks of a poor mental health system. Past legal age there is very little 'the system' can do to force people to seek treatment if they are unwilling to participate or have broken no laws.

 

One wonders how involved his parents were in encouraging him to seek treatment.

 

My own intimate experience with mental illness in a family member was 20 years of trying to do the right thing over and over, followed by periods of exhaustion, and the simple desire to be able to live life without my sister being dropped off on my front porch periodically in the middle of the night in full DTs. Her wish to die came true one month before her 40th birthday.

 

We want someone to explain to us why this happens, some insight that will allow us to feel comforted when we go to sleep at night. For me the comfort of understanding has never come. I have just become less frightened of the groundlessness.

[Analogman]

I have been wondering about his parents and their business - I would think they would be leaving town.

[Dreamin']

Violent themes in writing, etc. don't always indicate that the author intends to commit an act of violence, BUT it is one of the major warning signs and should be taken seriously. By asking a few questions, it's usually pretty easy to tell if the person is a budding Tarantino or if something else is going on. And of course, it's not one isolated incident, but a pattern of behaviour that people should watch for. If someone talks about suicide and I'm pretty sure they're just joking, I still ask questions. The person may laugh at me or think I'm overreacting, but if they are thinking about it, at least they will know that I'm not afraid to go there and that I might be someone they could talk to if they need help.

 

Cho Sent to Mental Health Facility in 2005

 

Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed "extraordinarily lonely

[Dreamin']

My own intimate experience with mental illness in a family member was 20 years of trying to do the right thing over and over, followed by periods of exhaustion, and the simple desire to be able to live life without my sister being dropped off on my front porch periodically in the middle of the night in full DTs. Her wish to die came true one month before her 40th birthday.

I'm sorry, M Chris. Sometimes you can do everything right and there is still a tragic ending. Even so, you demonstrated a lot of love in the process and those actions speak louder than any words.

[M. (hristine]

Thank you Judy. I too have been thinking a great deal about Cho's family.

 

I always appreciate you weighing in on these issues. I know it is a subject that is your vocation and very close to your heart as well. I have struggled with the questions of 'what more could I have done' many, many times.

 

The question is, what is the best course of action? Committing an adult, even a young adult to a mental institution is a huge decision for a family. We discussed it in my family quite alot. In the states anyway, the options for middle class families are pretty limited. I have experienced state mental institutions in a couple of different states. My sister committed herself many times (mostly to dry out). It's not quite Cuckoo's Nest, but not too far removed either. Committed patients like Cho would most likely be drugged into stupor to watch television all day. Obviously hindsight would say that Cho watching television all day is a far better scenario than the tragedy which has unfolded, but for a family trying to make that decision for a young man, one doesn't have the benefit of knowing what the future might hold.

[EL the Famous]

i wonder how many kids who went to bible study end up as mass murderers. Or conversely, how many mass murderers were bible study kids.

 

 

I read an article this morning that stated his parents did call the school to express concern he was suicidal around one of the times he was admitted into a mental health facility. Like Dreamin' Judy said, I really do feel horrible for his folks and, much like M. Chris, I can say that dealing w/ a family member w/ mental/substance abuse issues is one of the most frsutrating things in life to deal w/...as you really do hope for some silver bullet to make them better and there isn't one.

[Dreamin']

The question is, what is the best course of action? Committing an adult, even a young adult to a mental institution is a huge decision for a family. We discussed it in my family quite alot. In the states anyway, the options for middle class families are pretty limited. I have experienced state mental institutions in a couple of different states. My sister committed herself many times (mostly to dry out). It's not quite Cuckoo's Nest, but not too far removed either. Committed patients like Cho would most likely be drugged into stupor to watch television all day. Obviously hindsight would say that Cho watching television all day is a far better scenario than the tragedy which has unfolded, but for a family trying to make that decision for a young man, one doesn't have the benefit of knowing what the future might hold.

Every situation is unique, so I don't think there is a single answer to your question. Loved ones face very painful/impossible decisions, and like you, they act with much love and compassion (often with little support), according to the best information that they have at the time. Sometimes, when a person is believed to be a danger to themself or others, they can be hospitalized for a short period of time until they are stable enough for outpatient treatment or a referral to a mental health professional in the community. I don't know how difficult it is to find a good psychiatrist or therapist in the US (it's not easy in Canada), but once the initial crisis has passed, timely follow-up and ongoing care is crucial. When I'm concerned about someone, I always try to get as many supportive people involved as possible because the likelihood of burn-out is high. One person, no matter how well trained, loving, etc., cannot possibly do it alone. And sometimes you can do everything right and things still turn out badly. It hurts and you never forget. And then you try again, and again...

 

In my experience, stigma/fear and lack of awareness about mental health issues can prevent people from seeking or receiving help. That's why I'm always going off about this stuff. When I worked in community mental health, one of the things we did was teach high school students how to identify the warning signs of suicide and seek help for friends (or for themselves). A student who attended one of those presentations took his own life a few days later, and at first, it felt like all my work was in vain. But then the referrals started pouring in and I realized that although I couldn't help that kid, I might be able to help others. Sometimes I feel useless and I know that I can't fix people's lives, but showing someone a little compassion in a time of crisis can be a powerful thing. No matter how it turns out.

[Col. Hapablap]

This tragedy just gets more and more disturbing by the hour. The killer sent a "manifesto" to NBC news during the time in between the two shootings.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

[Spawn's dad]

I agree, that would be a sign

[Reni]

This tragedy just gets more and more disturbing by the hour. The killer sent a "manifesto" to NBC news during the time in between the two shootings.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

 

 

my goodness.

[radiokills]

read his plays, they're fucked up.

[tugmoose]

Video brings to mind the movie Slacker, where the TV guy plays a tape of a guy about to take out the thesis committee.

 

I do recall college was when I first became aware of the class distinction between the middle and upper class - they not only had cars, they had really nice cars.