The inevitable sell out post

[Good Old Neon]

I

[bobfrombob]

Should be "due"

[Good Old Neon]

Should be "due"

 

Thanks for the grammar check - I was in a sort of huff when writing it.

[Scalzunfield]

I

[LouieB]

Having a discussion on this is certainly within the bounds of this board, but first of all I am curious why this would be someone's first post on this board??? Maybe the poster can explain that before we express our righteous indignation about this?

 

LouieB

[Good Old Neon]

I have read a number of these interviews and fail to see this "commercial development" you seem to refer to.

 

Also, I have listened to Sky Blue Sky roughly 100 times by now and nowhere in there did I hear anything that screamed at me "Car Ad." Also, "Is That The Thanks I Get?" was a song Jeff wrote for another singer to sing, if I remember the story right.

 

None of these songs were written specifically for a TV commercial, but you seem to think they were; that this is an album filled with car jingles. I think you're wrong.

 

Your bitching and moaning that they've "sold out" is completely outdated. So what? They have a few fucking songs in commercials. Why does that get your panties in a bunch?

 

And, most importantly, how exactly does Wilco's music being in a commercial effect your life in such a negative manner? Don't like it? Ignore it and go on your merry way.

 

And if it makes you hate the band so much you refuse to buy the albums or go to the shows...good. One less person I have to battle with for tickets.

 

Go back and find me the part in which I claimed these songs where written explicitly for car commercials

[Calexico]

Having a discussion on this is certainly within the bounds of this board, but first of all I am curious why this would be someone's first post on this board??? Maybe the poster can explain that before we express our righteous indignation about this?

 

LouieB

 

 

I got hammered here for my first few posts and I didn't say anything remotely upsetting.

[Good Old Neon]

Having a discussion on this is certainly within the bounds of this board, but first of all I am curious why this would be someone's first post on this board??? Maybe the poster can explain that before we express our righteous indignation about this?

 

LouieB

 

I

[LouisvilleGreg]

As someone who was reared in the punk community close to twenty years ago, let me say that what you're accusing Wilco of is ridiculous. This isn't akin to Jawbreaker signing to a major after years of publicly bashing them or Chumbawumba, an anarchist collective first and band second, writing a pop hit about drinking adventures. Wilco/ Tweedy has been on a major for thirteen or fourteen years, tickets are sold through ticketmaster, they appear on shows like Leno and Conan and Letterman. I don't see where they've ever explicitly stated that they wouldn't do something like this. Sooner or later it happens to most every major artist, morals or not, see the Clash, Dylan, the Stooges, are Wilco above those bands/ artists? If you're worried about follwoing a abnd with strict ethics maybe Fugazi should be your favorite as they've outlined their principals regarding being a band since 1987, Wilco most certainly has never done so.

[guitman]

Don't forget -- being musicians and artists is their job. Call it selling out, call it making a buck, or whatever...they do what they do so they can put food on the table. What do you expect? Do you want them to give their music away for free so they can work the checkout line at the grocery store?

 

That being said, I don't expect you'll see any of the bandmates showing their house on MTV Cribs anytime soon. (Ok, is that last sentence even relevant? Is that show still on?)

 

Even Dylan did an ad for Victoria's Secret.

[Good Old Neon]

As someone who was reared in the punk community close to twenty years ago, let me say that what you're accusing Wilco of is ridiculous. This isn't akin to Jawbreaker signing to a major after years of publicly bashing them or Chumbawumba, an anarchist collective first and band second, writing a pop hit about drinking adventures. Wilco/ Tweedy has been on a major for thirteen or fourteen years, tickets are sold through ticketmaster, they appear on shows like Leno and Conan and Letterman. I don't see where they've ever explicitly stated that they wouldn't do something like this. Sooner or later it happens to most every major artist, morals or not, see the Clash, Dylan, the Stooges, are Wilco above those bands/ artists? If you're worried about follwoing a abnd with strict ethics maybe Fugazi should be your favorite as they've outlined their principals regarding being a band since 1987, Wilco most certainly has never done so.

 

Just curious

[Scalzunfield]

No worries, you won

[Good Old Neon]

Don't forget -- being musicians and artists is their job. Call it selling out, call it making a buck, or whatever...they do what they do so they can put food on the table. What do you expect? Do you want them to give their music away for free so they can work the checkout line at the grocery store?

 

That being said, I don't expect you'll see any of the bandmates showing their house on MTV Cribs anytime soon. (Ok, is that last sentence even relevant? Is that show still on?)

 

Even Dylan did an ad for Victoria's Secret.

 

Dylan is exactly my point

[Good Old Neon]

Do you REALLY think that because "Is That The Thanks I Get?" is in a car commercial, it will "drive the kids mad" and send them running to the concert for that song?

 

I highly doubt it. It's not on an album and, from glancing at set lists on this tour, they're not even playing the damn song! Also, I notice that nowhere in the commercial does it even say "Wilco," at least, not in the version I saw on the computer.

 

If they're selling that song out there specifically to drive people to the shows, this strategy ain't gonna work.

 

Frankly, you come across as a cynic of the worst kind. As Greg pointed out in his post, bands like The Clash, Dylan, and the Stooges have all (in your words) sold out as have Zeppelin and other bands. I sincerely hope your record collection has none of those artists or any others who have songs in commercials.

 

I wouldn't want you coming across as a hypocrite.

 

I DO really think that

[shabba rich]

Whether you chose to believe it or not

[Scalzunfield]

I do own some of those albums, and I do skip over the songs that have lost their relevance or meaning do to overexposure.

 

I'm sorry. I just listen to music because I enjoy it. It doesn't necessarily sway me one way or the other if the song is used in a commercial. In fact, since 99% of what I like doesn't exactly qualify as mainstream, when I hear it in a commercial or during a ballgame, I smile. I'm happy that band is being recognized elsewhere besides in my home and my car.

 

Frankly, I see your argument. I think you're a little over-zealous with it and almost a bit extreme. On the other hand, they're musicians. It's what they're doing for a living. If you're told at work tomorrow they're gonna give you a raise because you've been doing great work for your company, are you going to turn it down? Hell no. It's the same reason ballplayers try to cash in on the big bucks after they have one good season: it could all be gone tomorrow. Make what you can today.

 

The thing is, I don't see this "changing" Wilco's music. They're still gonna make the album they want to make and they're on a label that lets them do so. Whether a car company makes an offer for the songs or not, I think that's still the bottom line.

[Good Old Neon]

Yes, but art only matters if it has access to an audience. Wilco is a brilliant artist that nobody gets to hear on the radio. How can it not be a good thing to give people access to even just 30 seconds of a great artist, whom they wouldn't have access to otherwise? That's 30 seconds of extra joy they're bringing into the world, what artist wouldn't want to do that?

 

"Selling out" is when a mega-star sells a mega-hit to a sponsor, which is greedy and unnecessary from the exposure perspective, and the song gets gets spoiled by being driven down people's throats. When a little, relatively unknown band like Wilco does it, it's not selling out, it's buying into a platform that will get them heard.

 

Did the Fratelli's sell out when they sold "Flathead" to i-tunes? No, they brought a great piece of music to my attention, and my life has been that teeny bit better ever since.

 

I might agree with you if Sky Blue Sky did not debut near the top of Billboards list

[tblair]

I think, to accuse a band that gives albums away before they're released, permits gigs to be recorded, webcasts for free shows on a regular basis, of selling out, is one of the most 'selfish', narrow minded things I've heard in a while....

[shabba rich]

In fact, I find it more disturbing that a band with such a large fan base would choose to sell themselves for commercial usage. I could understand if they were a new band, just starting out, attempting to get their foot in the door. But they are not, not only do they have their foot firmly in the door

[Atticus]

This was a crass, marketing decision.

 

Thank you Tony Margherita

[Good Old Neon]

I think, to accuse a band that gives albums away before they're released, permits gigs to be recorded, webcasts for free shows on a regular basis, of selling out, is one of the most 'selfish', narrow minded things I've heard in a while....

 

Good point

[honestgabe]

Oh you're so full of it. Why should it's inclusion in an ad diminish the value of the song? If its a good music it should be able to hold up despite that. You have some issues buddy if you take personal offense to this and its making you depress. what a ding-dong, seriously just throw your load in the laundry and set it to s..fuggedaboutit

[tblair]

Good point

[Beltmann]

A few ideas recycled from another thread:

 

The negative reaction to the VW ads is largely predicated upon the assumption that commercial use automatically debases the art, which is an argument I understand, even if it strikes me as knee-jerk. I don't think commercial use always debases the art--to believe that, one must first subscribe to romanticized ideas about artistic purity. Don't get me wrong: I too believe that Wilco's music is art of the highest order, but hearing a few notes in a transient advert doesn't interfere with how I respond to that art, or alter what that art means to me. It's easy for me to separate those two functions.

 

In general, I don't care about licensing songs for advertising. It's a non-issue for me. In most cases, I think the whole idea of "selling out" is an artificial distinction based upon an artificial, idealized notion of artistic purity. There is no reason why music can't exist as art and product at the same time.

 

I'm reminded of something Leonard Cohen once said: "

[FixedBayonet]

This entire thread is redundant and backed up by some of the most poorly-thought-out arguments I've ever seen. In reply to the original post about hearing that Jeff and Wilco had 'allowed' one of the group's songs to be used in a VW commercial, I admit I found it a little unusual, but I think its drawing a pretty long bow to accuse them of selling out. As a musician of more than 22 years experience, with quite a few albums out and little to show for it besides a lot of good memories, it would be a dream come true to be able to have a car ad use something I wrote but hadn't released. Someone here a while ago published a thread linked to a Billboard (I think) stat about Wilco tickets sales in North America over about 8 years or so - somewhere in the vicinity of $5m or thereabouts, and it doesn't take a genius to work out that over their 13-year career, these guys haven't exactly been taking a lot of baths in greenbacks. They deserve to earn good money because the music they make is flat-out brilliant ALL THE TIME. None of their albums have disappointed me, though I admit some have taken a little longer than others to work their way into my subconscious. But to draw a line of comparison to someone like Tom Waits or Neil Young is pretty unfair. Tom is a solo artist, he writes and performs the songs himself and pays his favourite session musicians to perform them (admittedly rarely) in a live context. I also happen to remember that there was a ice cream commercial on TV in the early 70s in New Zealand and Australia selling Heart of Gold ice cream, which used either the Neil Young song in question (or a pretty accurate copy) as the jingle. I for one don't have a problem with the concept and personally, you're on a losing streak playing music and recording it at the best of times, and it's only when you're at the level of bands like U2 or Oasis that you can afford to sit back and make decisions about whether filmmakers or advertisers can use your music. The rest of the time, it's a financial decision dictated by the necessity of the money. Good on Tom Waits for suing those advertisers who used sound-alikes to push their crap, but I suspect that Tweedy et al are not thinking about their credibility being on the line - I wish they could afford that luxury of being able to say no. But the decision is Tweedy's. And I for one don't judge him as a sell-out for it at all. Put yourself in his shoes. He made music his career, and he is supporting a family. Why the hell not?