Duck-Billed Catechist Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I don't think the average fan wants to hear about the Jankees and Red Sox. There are more fans of those teams than of other teams, but certainly not enough to warrant the ridiculous amount of attention they get. Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Well, some numbers pusher at ESPN or fox sports would probably disagree with you. and the yankees struggling is actually news in sports. The biggest payroll in baseball can't get it done? You don't think that's news? Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Who's "the average fan" though? Everyone's got their own loyalties, and some markets have more fans than others. It's pretty simple, really. You know this. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Who's "the average fan" though? Manny Ortez Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I think if the Marlins or Texas or " " produced year in and year out they'd probably get covered more, too. Griping about coverage of teams that consistently contend? C'mon. L.A. is a heck of a team this year and I see plenty of coverage of them. Then again, I see plenty of Tampa Bay coverage, too. Link to post Share on other sites
boywiththorninside Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 If i wasn't a sox fan i bet i'd be annoyed too, but the Red Sox and the Yankees are what they are--money makers for everyone. Good point. Obnoxious Red Sox fans and polite, knowledgable Yankee fans do help fill AL ball parks across the country. (I'm joking - Yankee fans are just, if not more, obnoxious) I think the Red Sox are, in fact, the top road draw of all MLB teams. Also, there was this recent poll: Harris Poll The New York Yankees May Be Slumping on the Field, But They Are Still America Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Good point. Obnoxious Red Sox fans and polite, knowledgable Yankee fans do help fill AL ball parks across the country. (I'm joking - Yankee fans are just, if not more, obnoxious)As a fair and balanced Red Sox fan, I can admit that Red Sox fans, in general, are far more obnoxious than Yankees fans. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 So it looks as if there are other popular teams that consistently contend--namely the Cardinals and Braves. Hmmmm..... Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The Braves get their due respect, too. The Cardinals, as well. As was mentioned earlier, though, when the Braves and/or Cards go on the road they aren't drawing as many fans to the ball park. That might have something to do with it. More folks want to watch NYY or BOS. So they're shown and hyped more. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The Indians might fill up stadiums wherever they go if they got more coverage. People don't know who they are as much, so are less likely to want to go see them. It's an endless cycle. Also, the recent success angle works, but only so much. The Lakers still get a heck of a lot more coverage during the NBA season than the Spurs do. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I don't think the average fan wants to hear about the Jankees and Red Sox. There are more fans of those teams than of other teams, but certainly not enough to warrant the ridiculous amount of attention they get.I realize Midwesterners have an inferiority complex, but you really shouldn't let that interfere with common sense. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 It's an endless cycle.Right. The feedback goes both ways. The Cubs and the Braves both have nationwide coverage on WGN and TBS and that's one of the reasons they're so popular. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 For the record, the struggles of the Yankees have been mostly due to bad luck, and there's an extremely good chance they are going to go on a hot streak soon. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I don't know. Maybe they've had some bad luck, but is that enough to make up for the fact that they hate winning and have no heart? It's time for them to make a big move, and that move is to trade A-Rod for David Eckstein. It's been a long time coming. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I don't know. Maybe they've had some bad luck, but is that enough to make up for the fact that they hate winning and have no heart? It's time for them to make a big move, and that move is to trade A-Rod for David Eckstein. It's been a long time coming. That would improve their heart rating from a 178.96 to a 146.37 (remember, when calculating heart rating, you want a lower score), a truly tremendous turnaround, but they still have too many guys clogging up the basepaths and waiting for the 3 run home run. I'm not even sure David Eckstein could fix this. I was going to say who would play 3rd base in this scenario, but it's obvious Jeter and Eckstein would team to play double Shortstop, which is even better than having a 3rd baseman. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Jeter can cover third and short. Eckstein is coming out of the bullpen. Link to post Share on other sites
boywiththorninside Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 For the record, the struggles of the Yankees have been mostly due to bad luck, and there's an extremely good chance they are going to go on a hot streak soon. The Yankees have had some bad luck with injuries, but every team deals with that. Most of the Yankees bad luck is of Brian Cashman's making. Kei Igawa? Pavano? Trading Sheffield within the AL? The bullpen? Letting Bernie go while he still had a little left in the tank. That's all nit-picking and hindsight judgments, but Cashman deserves some criticism. All that said, I do agree, a hot streak is imminent. They've already won 9 of 12, but I expect them to build on that. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Well, I'm talking mostly about the fact that they are still underperforming their Pythagoreon W/L by 6 games. Based on their runs scored and allowed, they should have 6 more wins than they do now. And since the PWL is generally a pretty accurate predictor of a team's actual W/L, these things tend to even out over the course of the year. Based on their Runs scored and runs allowed, the Yankees should be the 3rd best team in the AL, believe it or not. It's still highly possible they will be. There's a lot of season left, stranger things have happened. Link to post Share on other sites
darkstar Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Well, I'm talking mostly about the fact that they are still underperforming their Pythagoreon W/L by 6 games. Based on their runs scored and allowed, they should have 6 more wins than they do now. And since the PWL is generally a pretty accurate predictor of a team's actual W/L, these things tend to even out over the course of the year. Based on their Runs scored and runs allowed, the Yankees should be the 3rd best team in the AL, believe it or not. It's still highly possible they will be. There's a lot of season left, stranger things have happened. Admit it Earl....you are really Bill James in disguise statmaster! Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Admit it Earl....you are really Bill James in disguise statmaster! I wish. Half of the time, I have no clue what I'm talking about, and the other half I'm just copying and pasting from baseballprospectus. By the way, did anyone else take advantage of Baseballprospectus.com's 5 day free trial last week? It was pretty sweet. They've got all kinds of neat stuff on that site. Link to post Share on other sites
boywiththorninside Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Well, I'm talking mostly about the fact that they are still underperforming their Pythagoreon W/L by 6 games. Based on their runs scored and allowed, they should have 6 more wins than they do now. And since the PWL is generally a pretty accurate predictor of a team's actual W/L, these things tend to even out over the course of the year. Based on their Runs scored and runs allowed, the Yankees should be the 3rd best team in the AL, believe it or not. It's still highly possible they will be. There's a lot of season left, stranger things have happened. That's interesting. I'd like to see the Py. W/L proven correct. 3rd best team in the AL should be good enough for the Wild Card. Link to post Share on other sites
darkstar Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Did not know about the free trial....... So what in your opinion is the most overrated/useless baseball stat out there? Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 By the way, did anyone else take advantage of Baseballprospectus.com's 5 day free trial last week? It was pretty sweet. They've got all kinds of neat stuff on that site.Thanks for letting me know about it last week, jerkface. Most overrated stat: Wins for a pitcher by a longshotMost useless: Saves Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Did not know about the free trial.......So what in your opinion is the most overrated/useless baseball stat out there?In my opinion, it's a tie between batting average and wins for a pitcher, among the commonly used ones. Obviously any with a tiny sample size like BA with RISP and 2 outs is going to be useless simply because of the small sample size (and because of the implication that a player's performance in those situation can tell you something important about how "Clutch" a player is), so those are out. Batting average is useless because guys like Adam Dunn and Dan Uggla hit .240 and are infinitely more valuable than a guy like Juan Pierre or Scott Podsednik hitting .290-.310. Batting average is really only usefull if you also cite a player Secondary Average, which takes into account XBH, SB, BB, and CS. That can tell you alot about a player, and shows you why, despite his .260 career average, Mike Schmidt was maybe one of the 2 best 3rd basemen of all time.As for wins for a pitcher, over the course of a career, it can tell you something, I guess, but for the most part, it's entirely dependent on what the other 8 players on the field do. If Kei Igawa gives up 6 runs in 5 innings, but the Yankees score 7 and the bullpen holds the game, he wins. If Roy Oswalt pitches a complete game 4 hitter, but gives up a run on 2 errors, and his team gets shut out, he gets a loss. That is the main reason why Wins by a pitcher are useless. Any stat that is mostly dependent on the other players on your team is, by definition a useless stat to judge a single player. It's the reason Bert Blyleven isn't in the Hall of Fame, even though he is one of the best pitchers of all time by every stat but W/L.Thanks for letting me know about it last week, jerkface.Most overrated stat: Wins for a pitcher by a longshotMost useless: SavesI didn't know about it until the last day or 2, and you weren't online. Don't pin this on me, man. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 All is forgiven, buddy. I would say that while batting average is very, very overrated, it is still not nearly in the same league as wins for a pitcher. BA gives you a very small part of a much bigger picture, but it at least tells you about a player. It does not tell you how good a batter is, but it can at least hint at it. Wins tell you a whole lot about a team, but barely anything at all about the pitcher (see: Matt Cain, this season). It's silly to put too much stock in batting average because there are much better stats that can tell you a whole lot more. It's stupid to look at wins, because it tells you pretty much nothing at all. Link to post Share on other sites
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