mountain bed Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Apparently, Attorney General nominee Mukasey isn't sure.. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071102/ap_on_.../senate_mukasey Discuss. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Pusha-A Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Who the fack cares? Seriously? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Who the fack cares? Seriously? I don't know. Maybe anyone with a conscience? Yes, waterboarding is torture. And no, our country should not be engaging in things like this. This issue is so cut and dry that the debate about it is absolutely infuriating. This isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. This isn't even a security vs. civil liberties issue. This is just a matter of, is this right? Is this the type of country that we want to be? The answer, to me, is such an obvious no to both questions that I cannot believe that it's even an issue. I admit that I was predisposed against Bush from the beginning, but I honestly don't believe that I would let shit like this go if it was anyone else in the White House. There's a certain point where partisan and ideological issues just don't matter anymore, and this is without a doubt one of them. Torture is inhuman, it is illegal, and it is unquestionably un-American. It is beyond my comprehension that anyone not only is okay with it, but is willing to fight for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Pusha-A Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Why the fack would joo write so much about wakeboarding? "look at me I'm x-treme!" Kall me...wakeboarding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted November 2, 2007 Author Share Posted November 2, 2007 After the complete debacles of Abu Grahib and Gitmo, which have done more to destroy our credibility on the moral high ground than any events since when...My Lai (?) to think that this nominee (who said repeatedly that he would have no qualms 'going against the wishes of the President') can't come to a conclusion that the rest of the civilized world knows instinctively is sad beyond belief. I think the need to restore some semblance of confidence in the AG after the Gonzales fiasco is imperative. And I think the Senators who are using this as some kind of litmus test are completely justified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 I don't see any of the people who say it's not torture volunteering to undergo it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a.miller Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Simulating drowning is pretty damn terrible. I can't believe our current administration can justify this bullshit. The United States is supposed to be better than that shit, and try to stop it from happening -- not participate in it. It's absolutely disgusting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Those in favor always argue that it's the only way to get info out of terrorists that could potentially stop another terrorist attack. Too bad they didn't stop to think that maybe if we didn't do shit like waterboarding, people might actually offer up info about terrorists willingly and not want to become terrorists in the first place. If we're trying to take the moral high-ground and claim to be the good guys, we have to act like the good guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swirlaround Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Would depend on the last time you bathed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isadorah Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 it's torture and this guy scares me more than gonzalles and ashcroft combined. i don't understand how our country got to the point where we would even think to have to ask if waterboarding was torture needless to say have engaged in said torture. i do like how the senate judiciary committee is handling this though. should be very interesting if they reject his nomination because of this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Whether you believe it is torture or not the sad thing about this issue is the fact that our leaders seem to be continually splitting hairs and giving us reasons why torture (oops, enhanced interrogation methods) is good all the while loudly proclaiming that we don't torture and what we do is legal. They are trying to get as close to the line as possible without going over, yet they will not define the line or even talk about what crossing the line is. This is in such contrast to what I grew up knowing and that is that there was a bright line, a well defined line that we would not even approach...at least rhetorically. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sid Hartha Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Simulating drowning is pretty damn terrible. I can't believe our current administration can justify this bullshit. The United States is supposed to be better than that shit, and try to stop it from happening -- not participate in it. It's absolutely disgusting.It's not simulated. The lungs slowly fill with water over a period of time. It's controlled drowning - it happens in slow motion, so you have plenty of time to experience the horror - to contemplate what's happening to you. I wonder if Alberto Gonzales would have had better recollection of events during his testimony if we submitted him to waterboarding. Since it's not considered torture, I don't see what the problem would be with this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isadorah Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I wonder if Alberto Gonzales would have had better recollection of events during his testimony if we submitted him to waterboarding. Since it's not considered torture, I don't see what the problem would be with this... Yes!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 it's torture and this guy scares me more than gonzalles and ashcroft combined. i don't understand how our country got to the point where we would even think to have to ask if waterboarding was torture needless to say have engaged in said torture. i do like how the senate judiciary committee is handling this though. should be very interesting if they reject his nomination because of this. Feinstein and Schumer caved yesterday. He is going to be confirmed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I have never been able to figure out what the expression "simulating drowning" means? If someone is running water over your mouth and nose isn't that close enough to actually drown if you can't breath? And yea it is torture. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 Feinstein and Schumer caved yesterday. He is going to be confirmed.Oh no. I hate to hear this. Hell, Schumer was really instrumental in getting Gonzales out of there. He was pretty determined. I know there's like a 14% approval rating for the Congress but folks like Schumer, Leahy, etc. are really some of the best we have in being adamant about oversight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 So...four hours of debate on the confirmation of Mukasey tonight. Both Schumer and Feinstein gave forceful, eloquent arguments for confirmation. I don't agree with them of course but the thing they were most concerned about was this: Bush's threat to just have a 'caretaker' AG for the last 14 months of his Presidency. The fear that someone could be put in there with no confirmation could be horrifying - the person could make Gonzales look like a saint by comparison. The Cheney/Addington end of the White House could run amok for the next year-plus (I know, like they haven't already). All the work that has been done to get rid of Gonzales would be wiped out. This sounds suspiciously like a 'lesser of two evils' type of thing but what to do? On the other side...this should be put in the "Things That Are Right With This Country" thread: Pat Leahy. I don't know how many peeps here are from VT but you all should be sooo thankful that this man is your Senator. I don't agree with him all of the time but tonight he nearly brought tears to my eyes with a powerful 45 minute speech against confirmation. Just amazing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Just amazing.Or, an amazing waste of time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?la.../09/filibuster/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 If I had to be tortured, I think I'd rather have this done than have someone hurt my junk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?la.../09/filibuster/ I love Mr. Greenwald - thank's for the link. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 Or, an amazing waste of time. Why is that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamin' Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Keith Olbermann on waterboarding Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 Keith Olbermann on waterboarding Thank you Judy. That was NOT a wasted 10 minutes of my time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmacomber68w Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 "torture" is such an odd subject for me, im pretty set in my ways on political issues but I seem to flip flop mentally, on one hand its torture of pure scum and a terrorist has no right period to not get his ass beat down, but on the other hand once you torture you just bring yourself to such a low level! nevermind the entire factor that the suspected terrorist may really just be a regular joe who flirts with the idea of radical islam but will never pose a threat to anyone, im happy im not a politician Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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