MattZ Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 do they really think I, and by extension all Americans, are dumb enough to buy this crap? (The worst part is that too many Americans do buy this crap.) Sadly, I think that's the point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 What country is she from? i'm only 30 not 44 like Michelle, but i've had VERY VERY little to be proud of the US "IN MY ADULT LIFETIME" this is the first time out of the 4 election cycles i've voted in that i actually care enough to get involved... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Maybe, but it's still a big mistake by the Obama campaign, and they're going to have to address it publicly.Yeah... they will have to address it, but only because morons will make it a big deal--thereby lowering our national discussion to moronic levels, as usual. I don't think it was a true "mistake," in the sense that there was absolutely nothing controversial about the statement in context. How sad it is when a public speaker is accused of a "mistake" only for assuming that her listeners are capable of grasping context. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 ditto on that Kyle. Now, I am waiting for the anti-Michelle Obama chain email from my uncle who sends me the most vile email forwards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Now, I am waiting for the anti-Michelle Obama chain email from my uncle who sends me the most vile email forwards. These days I always "reply to all." Who knows? Maybe one of those people would like to read a rebuttal. I figure, that's better than just hitting delete. (I also receive fewer forwards now!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 the issue with my uncle is touchy - I feel weird challenging him on everything he sends me.....however, I did respond to the Obama forward. IT seems I get fewer forwards these days, too. Congrats again on the arrival of Keaton!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 if you meant... i'm only 30 not 44 like Michelle, but i've had VERY VERY little to be proud of the US GOVERNMENT "IN MY ADULT LIFETIME" ...i'd agree with you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 All comments like Mrs. Obama's do is irk people who don't have the whole "ashamed to be American" thing from the Vietnam-Watergate era ingrained in their psychae. (Reagan got elected in 1980 partially by challenging this then-widely held belief.) I don't think it will be that impactful on the matter's eventual outcome, but it doesn't help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 if you meant... ...i'd agree with you.[sarcasm] How can you differentiate, it still of the people, for the people, by the people, right? [sarcasm/] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jakobnicholas Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 You all will laugh at the source, but an interesting article today from the National Review. The writer wonders if Al Gore might come in late to save the day for the Democrats and their experience-challenged candidates. Here's an interesting quote, talking about the Democrats, Hillary and Obama: "You have a convention hall full of party activists, nervous and weary from months of watching the party Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 There's been chatter about that forever, but there's no way it will happen. Gore is really not running for president. He's already offered himself as an arbitor between Clinton and Obama to come to some sort of agreement before the convention if it isn't wrapped up before then because he doesn't want it coming down to superdelegates. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Gore came out a few weeks ago in support of gay marriage. Probably for no other reason than to end the yammering about him running! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I have a bone to pick with the whole primary thing: I've never voted in a primary before last week, and I was quite miffed when the woman at the voting center told me I had to pick between being registered as a Republican or a Democrat. I didn't want to choose either, out of principle, since I don't really believe people should be corralled into political parties, and I almost walked out when she told me I absolutely had to choose one or I wouldn't be able to cast a vote. I don't get it. If anything, I'm independent. Couldn't I choose Independent? Why not? To answer your question (though quite a bit late - are you still here?), the primaries are intended to be a 'members only' vote, in theory. Clearly, a Republican could have voted for Obama to screw Hillary or what-have-you, but the whole point is that Democrats come together to elect a Democratic candidate, Republicans for a Republican candidate, and the independents choose their independent candidate. You can go apeshit unregistered in November, but the primaries allow parties to make decisions for themselves. Think of it this way: If the Boy Scouts were having a pack meeting to decide troop leaders (or whatever the lingo is) and you stepped into their rooms for the first time ever, should you get to participate before you're actually a Boy Scout? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 On the other hand it is refreshing to hear something not scripted, that is not pandering. This has worked quite well for Michelle Obama so far, and I don't doubt that it will continue to save her from slip-ups. She has an extensive record of saying what she means honestly and bluntly (think of the Today Show/supporing Hillary incident), and she has escaped from missteps so far precisely because they're not scripted, or if they are they are so genuine. She was allowed to say what she said and have it be Michelle Obama's mistake. McCain's wife responds and the New York Times calls it the McCain campaign response to Obama. The candidates' tactical errors (for instance, the Obama plagiarism allegations) come from speeches that have gone through dozens of people - so do Michelle's, I'm sure, but she sounds so damned off-the-cuff. Because she appears so natural and the candidates'/other spouses' don't, I think she can get away with a little more room for error. Authenticity, I think, is the word I'm looking for. Her missteps seem authentic. We say, "I could have done it." Barack stealing words? We say, "Idiot should have had his editor check it over." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 "What she MEANT was,........." That shit makes me laugh. Really, this is American politics and so don't get butt-hurt when you say some shit that you regret and people call you out. IT HAPPENS. Do you think she meant this as a good thing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Do you think she meant this as a good thing? Um, yes? It was obviously meant to criticize decades of poisonous and/or apathetic politics, only to praise how, for many new voters, that might be changing. That sounds like a pretty good thing to me, not to mention fairly accurate. When I listened to the speech Monday night, it didn't strike me as anything but a point about the improving health of the American political scene, with perhaps a dash of innocent hyperbole. I can't believe this is even remotely controversial. Who could possibly misunderstand this comment, except people who want to think the worst of people (especially opponents) and willfully ignore context in order to help them misconstrue something for their own cynical dead ends? People hear what they want to hear, and if Michelle Obama's innocent comment sounds like "I hate America" to certain ears, I guess there's no changing that. Seriously, are there actually people out there who seriously think Michelle Obama hates America? God help us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Eric, couldn't have said it better myself Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Seriously, are there actually people out there who seriously think Michelle Obama hates America? God help us. Don't even gimme that shit. I know her husband's middle name; I know where they stand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Video link I don't know what was said beforehand, but what I've seen here is really not a big deal. Maybe not worded in the best of all possible ways, but still rather harmless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jakobnicholas Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Michelle Obama is not an America hater. Her comments should not make anybody think otherwise. But if I was Barack, I'd make sure a microphone never appears in front of her face before November. She understandably doesn't understand the game of politics. You just don't say crap like that. It doesn't sound right to a certain group of people. Though I think this is blown out of proportion, her comments DID have a tone of, "America isn't as great a place to live as a lot of people think." Tell that to the World War vets who kept America a free land. Or tell it to the hundreds of thousands of foreigners who are flocking to our country to work multiple jobs, just so they can afford to keep their family in a free country. Tell that to upper-class and middle-class families who love that they can put in a good weeks of work, and then be able to have a nice house to live in and a car to take kids to soccer practices and on vacations. Many Americans are quite happy with their lives. And these same Americans have worked hard to be able to enjoy America. These same Americans I'm talking about also donate millions of dollars to charities and organizations to help the poor. I think Michelle Obama's straight-talk is somewhat refreshing. But I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND how her comments could rub some people the wrong way. And if Barack doesn't keep her comments behind closed doors, she ain't gonna help his run for President. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Michelle Obama is not an America hater. Her comments should not make anybody think otherwise. But if I was Barack, I'd make sure a microphone never appears in front of her face before November. She understandably doesn't understand the game of politics. You just don't say crap like that. It doesn't sound right to a certain group of people. Though I think this is blown out of proportion, her comments DID have a tone of, "America isn't as great a place to live as a lot of people think." Tell that to the World War vets who kept America a free land. Or tell it to the hundreds of thousands of foreigners who are flocking to our country to work multiple jobs, just so they can afford to keep their family in a free country. Tell that to upper-class and middle-class families who love that they can put in a good weeks of work, and then be able to have a nice house to live in and a car to take kids to soccer practices and on vacations. Many Americans are quite happy with their lives. And these same Americans have worked hard to be able to enjoy America. These same Americans I'm talking about also donate millions of dollars to charities and organizations to help the poor. I think Michelle Obama's straight-talk is somewhat refreshing. But I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND how her comments could rub some people the wrong way. And if Barack doesn't keep her comments behind closed doors, she ain't gonna help his run for President. You know what though, as great as it is, it, America, really isn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 But I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND how her comments could rub some people the wrong way.The irony of this is that Bill O'Reilly responded to Michelle Obama's utterly inoffensive comment with a genuinely insensitive comment. Using the term "lynching party" at this stage of American history--now there's a real mistake, a real lack of taste and judgment, a real insult to certain American citizens. I wonder how many people rubbed the wrong way by Michelle Obama reserved equal harrumphs for O'Reilly? My guess: Not many. And my guess for why? Most don't really care about what Michelle Obama said, because deep down they know it was an innocent comment; what they care about is justifying their own negative, preconceived notions and scoring gotcha political points against their opponent. Decency and a quest for truth aren't involved in the equation--if they were, O'Reilly would have been their next natural target. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 She was allowed to say what she said and have it be Michelle Obama's mistake. McCain's wife responds and the New York Times calls it the McCain campaign response to Obama. Didn't McCains wife make her comments with her husband by her side at a campaign event of his? Sounds like a scriipted campaign response to garner the cheers. Seriously, are there actually people out there who seriously think Michelle Obama hates America? God help us. Yes there are actual people out there who believe that. Heck there are far more of them than you realize. Tune into the faux commentaries or go read some right wing websites or listen to right wing radio, it's out there en masse. Sad thing though is these people think anyone who challenges the president on anything somehow hates America. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 This sort of controversy, controversy related to a remark taken completely out of context, and then used in a cynical attempt to manufacture drama, well, it makes me feel as though, as a nation, we are completely fucking retarded Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Ignore the stuff I posted about Michelle Obama. My comments were taken out of context. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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