Recording A Ghost is Born

[IamJacksName]

So I'm listening to these fantastic recordings from this weekend and just killing some time on the Internet when I decide to cruise over to Wilco's Wikipedia entry. I found this really interesting quote about the recording of AGiB there, and I'm wondering if anyone can shed more light on it.

 

"Unlike Summerteeth and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, A Ghost Is Born featured songs that were created with Pro Tools before ever performing them live."

 

As someone who isn't musically inclined in any way, shape or form, I know next to nothing about the recording process. I mean, I know Pro Tools is a digital recording platform, but I'm stumped by that sentence. " . . . songs created with Pro Tools before ever performing them live."

 

I searched around the forums but didn't find much other than the usual questions about demos. Of course, the closest we have to AGiB demos is the disc from The Wilco Book. A post on one thread by deepseacatfish said this: "The Wilco Book provides pretty good insight into how A Ghost is Born was conceived. Basically most of the early sessions were places for the band just to experiment and try different live-studio configurations--there are a couple of these mixes on the CD that comes with the book in case you don't have it. Then there are more well lined out "songs" and some alternate mixes as well, which I'm assuming is about as close to "demos" as AGIB stuff gets."

 

Again - what does this mean? Different live-studio configurations of what? Does anybody have any more insight into how the AGiB songs were formed. I know they were playing most of those songs before the album came out; I have plenty of recordings from that era. Some of the songs - Spiders, Muzzle of Bees - changed drastically, while others - ALTWYS, for instance - received only minor alterations.

 

Given that we don't have demos, can anybody add anything more to this? Did the band just jam with different arrangements and then cobble the pieces together in Pro Tools, creating the mix that was on the album and then learning how to play it that way?

 

Anyway, I'm really curious about this now, and it'd be great if anyone knew anything else. Hope this hasn't been discussed to death already. Cheers.

[southern hotel foxtrot]

I'd say Jeff and Jim laid down many of the tracks for AGIB on Protools before the rest ofthe band had their input....Seeing how they were short on band members at the time and several tracks on the album have each member playing different instruments on each of the songs, I doubt the tracks were cut live...maybe someone else can give a little more insight but yeah I'd love to hear outtakes and alternate versions of the songs from what is my favorite Wilco era...

[Dentoncitylimits]

My experience with protools and creating albums that have the similar feel to agib this is what i can say.

I feel that what that means is that they laid a basic track to kind of set up the song. Then overdubbed a lot over it. And by a lot i mean so much it makes your brain want to explode. This could also mean that they did several tracks with the band overdubbed them together and added other overdubs, basically making it impossible to play live with the number of members that they had recording on that album. I really wish we could ask jeff this question.

[idigworms]

It means that the songs on AGIB were fleshed out by arranging them with ProTools in Chicago. Then they went to New York and recorded the whole thing live, with very little overdubbing when compared to ST and YHF.

[Scott Gyrrr]

Yeah what ever they recorded at Sear Sound would have been to tape. I doubt they even have Pro Tools. Not that sort of studio. Pro Tools for the most part isn't a sound creating tool. So the songs wouldn't have been "created' in Pro Tools more just arranged and edited (probably at the Loft I'd guess). Then done proper at Soma and Sear Sound

[idigworms]

I absolutely love the living sound that AGIB has, as if each song were being performed by the band for the first time, and captured as quickly as humanly possible.

 

I initially hated AGIB for that very reason...

[froggie]

Jeff mentioned using pro-tools during one of his January 2003 solo shows, so could be..

[IamJacksName]

Jeff mentioned using pro-tools during one of his January 2003 solo shows, so could be..

 

Oh I remember that now. He used the phrase "cobble it together in Pro Tools," which is why that phrase came to mind when I wrote my original post. So the consensus seems to be that they basically screwed around at the Loft with Pro Tools, coming up with arrangements, learning to play these arrangements, and then recorded live in New York?

 

Does something like this happen often in the professional recording world? It seems like a big waste of time. Why not just use the Pro Tools versions instead of travelling? Maybe that's why they recorded Sky Blue Sky completely in the loft.

[idigworms]

Does something like this happen often in the professional recording world? It seems like a big waste of time. Why not just use the Pro Tools versions instead of travelling? Maybe that's why they recorded Sky Blue Sky completely in the loft.

 

Perhaps they simply wanted to record it live in New York. They certainly weren't strapped for options, you know.

 

Plus, they lost a lot of their equipment and instruments from the Loft when Jay was fired. A-ha.

[a.miller]

There was some activity that Jeff talked about recently that he described as "Foundations" or something like that. During this activity, Jeff would be in a sound-isolation booth where the rest of the band could hear him, but he could not hear them. He would sort of "jam" on whatever song he was in the process of writing and the band would do the same thing.

 

As far as Pro Tools goes, imagine a piece of paper where ever line is a different track, going from left to right. You can add another "line on the page", which will allow you to overdub. So essentially an entire band would never have to be present. One person could do all the recording themselves. Additionally, MIDI is so advanced these days that you can reproduce any instrument with a (piano) keyboard.

[cmackey34]

The reason for making "demos" on ProTools and then recording live is very simple: ProTools allows you to record MANY different tracks, audition the best ones and come up with a "finished" product - however, the sound of recording digitally and recording to tape (live) is very different. There are nuances to every sound that simply can't be captured digitally and the sound tends to become more compressed when mixed down (at least in my experience). An album like YHF and, especially, Summerteeth benefits from the ProTools treatment because of the variety of effects and sheer number of tracks involved in each song.

[CalebMac]

To go along with this thread, I remember reading an article where Jeff said he wrote the Krautrock version of "Spiders" on an old drum machine program he had on his computer.

[MeDave]

not that i'm hearing many value judgment points against protools in the process here, i would add that 'in defense' of the concept of organic songwriting/arranging they were playing a good number of the AGiB songs live as far back as fall 02. I heard less than you think in 11/02. they were regularly featuring ALTWYS, CimB, Muzzle of bees, on the summer 03 tours.

 

Most bands want to demo/record songs as part of the arranging process as hearing it back with different options shows what works and doesn't - pro tools is a helluva lot cheaper and easier to use in the process of doing so.

[idigworms]

AGIB sounds more alive than ST and YHF. Not meant as putting down on those two. Just my opinion on the entire sound of each album. (Having said that, "Jesus, Etc.," for the most part, could have fit in easily on AGIB...)

[JerseyMike]

The album is live. They recorded digitally at the loft over several months. Then they took the jams, or parts of jams, that they liked and spliced them together with protools. Then they took those edited recordings, learned how to play them live and went to NYC to record AGIB.

[idigworms]

The album is live. They recorded digitally at the loft over several months. Then they took the jams, or parts of jams, that they liked and spliced them together with protools. Then they took those edited recordings, learned how to play them live and went to NYC to record AGIB.

 

True dat.

[JerseyMike]

Also, I'd like to clear up the notion that you can't use Pro Tools and Tape at the same time. You record onto tape, and then bounce them into the Pro Tools and you don't lose any of the original "warmness" of tape. Its when you record directly to something digital that you lose the "warmth". Most of the studios that I've been in use tape and then dump them to ProTools, but I'm sure I live a sheltered life in that regard!

[IamJacksName]

Wasn't there some talk a while back about the band having trouble finding enough tape to use during recording sessions since it's become so commonplace to record digitally? I remember people talking about them erasing older demos and recordings just to get some extra tape, at least.

 

Anybody know if Sky Blue Sky was recorded on tape or digital? I know it was recorded live, but if they went to Sear in NYC for AGiB and discarded the Loft's digital recordings, then I wonder why they wouldn't do the same thing again. Maybe they found some more tape. But I've got to say, I prefer the AGiB sound over SBS. Not sure what it is . . . maybe you could call it tape hiss. Like the beginning of Impossible Germany - that static. AGiB sounded better to my non-discerning ears. But I do love SBS.

[TCP]

Okay, I probably have more recording experience then most people on this message board so let me clear things up. First of all, tape isn't the be all and end all of "analog warmth"... far from it. Compressors, EQs, the board, and especially pre-amps are equally as important.

Second, yes, tape isn't as common as it was in 1970 but I really doubt a band like Wilco would have problems finding tape.

Third, I can't say for certain but I imagine what Tweedy meant was, he sat down (either alone or with various band members) and arranged the songs on ProTools... probably sequencing out drums and key parts using MIDI and software plug ins (maybe he had some outboard gear for this process, but I doubt it). You don't even need to play keyboards, you can just draw in the notes you want to be played. This is a process A LOT of arrangers/composers do today, though ProTools isn't the best way to do it, Logic has a much better MIDI sequencer but ProTools is more "user friendly", especially to someone like Jeff, who doesn't have the time to sit down and learn a complicated program.

Also, to whoever said you can record on tape and dump into ProTools, this is true, but you can also sync a tape machine with something like ProTools (or Logic... or RADAR or even another tape machine!) and use them together, they did this on Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, I believe. That leads to my next point, the main advantage of digital recording is NOT the ammount of tracks, like I said, you can easily sync two tape machines together and have 48 tracks (I sincerely doubt that any song on AGIB required 48 tracks). The main reasons it's popular is

A] it's convenient

B] it's cheap (tape is expensive)

C] good signal to noise ratio (i.e. no tape hiss)

D] and most importantly.... THE UNDO BUTTON!!!!!!!!!

[Kalle]

Okay, I probably have more recording experience then most people on this message board so let me clear things up. First of all, tape isn't the be all and end all of "analog warmth"... far from it. Compressors, EQs, the board, and especially pre-amps are equally as important.

Second, yes, tape isn't as common as it was in 1970 but I really doubt a band like Wilco would have problems finding tape.

Third, I can't say for certain but I imagine what Tweedy meant was, he sat down (either alone or with various band members) and arranged the songs on ProTools... probably sequencing out drums and key parts using MIDI and software plug ins (maybe he had some outboard gear for this process, but I doubt it). You don't even need to play keyboards, you can just draw in the notes you want to be played. This is a process A LOT of arrangers/composers do today, though ProTools isn't the best way to do it, Logic has a much better MIDI sequencer but ProTools is more "user friendly", especially to someone like Jeff, who doesn't have the time to sit down and learn a complicated program.

Also, to whoever said you can record on tape and dump into ProTools, this is true, but you can also sync a tape machine with something like ProTools (or Logic... or RADAR or even another tape machine!) and use them together, they did this on Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, I believe. That leads to my next point, the main advantage of digital recording is NOT the ammount of tracks, like I said, you can easily sync two tape machines together and have 48 tracks (I sincerely doubt that any song on AGIB required 48 tracks). The main reasons it's popular is

A] it's convenient

B] it's cheap (tape is expensive)

C] good signal to noise ratio (i.e. no tape hiss)

D] and most importantly.... THE UNDO BUTTON!!!!!!!!!

 

All of this is totally bang on but I find the most convenient thing Protools can be used for is mixing. If you have an "analog" board to do your mixing and you want to go back change something (make the bass less prominent, make that kick punch more etc.) you either have to chart out all the EQ yourself beforehand (or if you're lucky you have someone else doing this) but you'll never ever get the exact same sounding mix as you had before. But, with Protools your mixes are all saved into the computer and you can go and slight changes with the click of a mouse and not affect everything else. That to me is just another great thing that Protools can do.