MrRain422 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 i'm referencing his flip on the public financing issue. i couldn't care less about david brooks or his opinion, not many people do. barack is all for finance reform..until he runs for president. do as i say, never mind what i do. same shit new politician. and nobody gives a damn...unless a republican tries it. baaaraaack.... He didn't really flip on it though. Obama never said that he would commit to public financing, only that he was willing to negotiate some sort of agreement with the Republican candidate to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 seems to conclude the article with a compliment: All I know for sure is that this guy is no liberal goo-goo. Republicans keep calling him na Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 there hasn't been a politician in my lifetime who didn't flip on stuff. mccain was hysterically funny on the news yesterday, soberly and high-horsely (made that word up just now) pointing out how, because of this funding switch, obama can't be trusted, period, and what a shame it is . . . the day after mccain himself switched his position on new offshore drilling! and joined george bush in yet another policy disaster while at it, i might add. mccain: pot kettle black Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, at the moment people within the Obama and McCain camps are arguing about that. Obama's camp says that the subject came up in meetings on other matters, and that McCain's side declined to negotiate it. McCain's people said that that isn't true. Believe whoever you want to in that -- it's pretty ambiguous where the truth lies when it comes to these supposed negotiations -- but that doesn't change the fact that it is false to claim that Obama committed to public financing and then changed his mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 i'm referencing his flip on the public financing issue.The worst that can be said of Obama is that he didn't "aggressively" pursue an agreement, as he suggested he would. Here's an interesting read: Why Obama Is Right To Reject Public Financing Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 He didn't really flip on it though. Obama never said that he would commit to public financing, only that he was willing to negotiate some sort of agreement with the Republican candidate to do so.Yahoo News: For years Obama supported using public funds for campaigns to keep the big special-interest money out, and he was recorded more than once saying "I strongly support public financing." On a questionaire by the good government group Common Cause, Obama wrote, "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election." And during an April 27 apperance on Fox News, Obama declared, "I have promised that I will sit down with John McCain and talk about can we preserve a public system." from another column: Yes, he did promise to abjure private financing of his presidential campaign if the Republican nominee would do the same, but as everyone can see, things have changed. Public finance would provide only $85 million, whereas Obama has raised more than three times that already. As the candidate explained so upliftingly, Link to post Share on other sites
Wailin Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I had no idea . . . Barack Obama wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower. Barack Obama says the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE every time he sees an American flag. He also ends every sentence by saying, "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL." Click here for video of Obama quietly mouthing the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE in his sleep. A tape exists of Michelle Obama saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at a conference on PATRIOTISM.Every weekend, Barack and Michelle take their daughters HUNTING. Barack Obama is a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN. He has one HAND over his HEART at all times. He occasionally switches when one arm gets tired, which is almost never because he is STRONG. Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It's upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups.There's only one artist on Barack Obama's iPod: FRANCIS SCOTT KEY. Barack Obama is a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. His favorite book is the BIBLE, which he has memorized. His name means HE WHO LOVES JESUS in the ancient language of Aramaic. He is PROUD that Jesus was an American. Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW. Barack Obama's new airplane includes a conference room, a kitchen, and a MEGACHURCH.Barack Obama's skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL. Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT. Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The worst that can be said of Obama is that he didn't "aggressively" pursue an agreement, as he suggested he would. Here's an interesting read: Why Obama Is Right To Reject Public Financingit is an interesting read, thanks. will it be absorbed by those whose only interest is in knocking him down? somehowi don't think so. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 it is an interesting read, thanks. will it be absorbed by those whose only interest is in knocking him down? somehowi don't think so.huffington post? come on... article written by John K. Wilson John K. Wilson blogs at www.obamapolitics.com and is the author of five books, including the new book "Barack Obama: This Improbable Quest" (Paradigm Publishers) and the forthcoming "Patriotic Correctness: Academic Freedom and Its Enemies." His previous books include Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The pics link Analogman posted were haunting. I believe 155 km radius, so yeah, your location would be wiped out. I feel for you. What type of solar panels are you considering, water or pv? We installed water (heating) panels. PM me if you have any questions.I really must point out that Chernobyl was a horribly designed and run nuclear power plant. It didn't even have a containment dome, which is why radiation was spewed everywhere when it melted down, due to a chain of really stupid mistakes on the parts of its operators. To say something like that can happen to a U.S.-built plant does not carry a lot of weight with me, which is why I get pissed at all the people who want to shut Indian Point down. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 For years Obama supported using public funds for campaigns to keep the big special-interest money out, and he was recorded more than once saying "I strongly support public financing." Yep, but did he say he supported this specific system of public financing? He's actually been very critical of it due to the fact that, through 527s, big special-interest money is still in the system. He's made the case that even while opting out of the official public financing system, he is still in fact running a truly publicly financed campaign -- his donations are not coming from PACs and special interest groups, as he's held to a policy of rejecting their donations. It sounds very semantical I know, and I understand rejecting this particular claim, but at the same time his complaints about the current system are valid, and so this isn't completely without merit. The current system does not achieve what Obama claimed to want to achieve by supporting public financing of elections (the removal of special interest money). Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 huffington post? come on... article written by John K. Wilson John K. Wilson blogs at www.obamapolitics.com and is the author of five books, including the new book "Barack Obama: This Improbable Quest" (Paradigm Publishers) and the forthcoming "Patriotic Correctness: Academic Freedom and Its Enemies." His previous books include Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 MoveOn is apparently making moves to close their 527 in light of Obama's candidacy. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yes, he did promise to abjure private financing of his presidential campaign if the Republican nominee would do the same, but as everyone can see, things have changed.Did John McCain agree to abjure private financing? Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Back to the election: Interesting editorial form David Brooks in the NYT The Two ObamasHe Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 He would have to be, to get as far as he has as fast as he has.i just tried to say that three times and got nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yep, but did he say he supported this specific system of public financing? He's actually been very critical of it due to the fact that, through 527s, big special-interest money is still in the system. He's made the case that even while opting out of the official public financing system, he is still in fact running a truly publicly financed campaign -- his donations are not coming from PACs and special interest groups, as he's held to a policy of rejecting their donations. It sounds very semantical I know, and I understand rejecting this particular claim, but at the same time his complaints about the current system are valid, and so this isn't completely without merit. The current system does achieve what Obama claimed to want to achieve by supporting public financing of elections (the removal of special interest money).i do not expect barack supporters to be swayed at all by this or other issues where barack decides to follow the breeze instead of his own words. this is all really pointless when it comes down to it. he's already won this election purely on personality, a ridiculously lame opponent and a horrendous bush legacy that has made democrats appear to be a viable alternative. game over. but barack wants to bring a gun to a knife fight with a 71 year-old because the campaign with the most money wins. i guess all that talk about barack working on finance reform the last 3 years was just lipservice. he never really took it seriously. i guess he doesn't want to take any chances, huh? whatever gets him elected. Barack Obama Supports Campaign Finance Reform: Obama supports public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests. Source: Campaign booklet, "Blueprint for Change", p. 3-5 Feb 2, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Right, but the current system doesn't give free television and radio time. That's part of his point. I acknowledged the weaknesses in his rhetorical argument, but again I do think that a person can support public financing of elections without supporting the current public financing system if their reasons for wanting public financing are not addressed by this particular system. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 So he feels privately funded is better than any sort of public funding, even though he has always supported public funding? I would think this could be a case of taking the lesser of two evils. Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I really must point out that Chernobyl was a horribly designed and run nuclear power plant. It didn't even have a containment dome, which is why radiation was spewed everywhere when it melted down, due to a chain of really stupid mistakes on the parts of its operators. To say something like that can happen to a U.S.-built plant does not carry a lot of weight with me, which is why I get pissed at all the people who want to shut Indian Point down. Thanx for the knowledge. That makes sense. The wiki on it discussed other things weren't constructed correctly, as well. Still, I am leary. The sun is a bright mutha. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I would think this is a case of Obama having a fuck-ton of money and wanting to have every bit of it to use against McCain. He may need it - I would not be surprised if this is the nastiest election since Lincoln-McClellan. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Obama, Clinton to Campaign Together for First Time Next Week Mark Drajem Fri Jun 20, 10:15 AM ET June 20 (Bloomberg) -- Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, who competed in the Democratic presidential primary race, will campaign together for the first time since Obama secured the nomination. The two will appear together June 27, Obama's campaign said, without providing details. Clinton dropped out of the primary race June 7. Clinton said during the campaign that Obama didn't have enough experience to be president and questioned whether he could defeat presumptive Republican nominee John McCain. When she conceded the race, Clinton pledged to ``work my heart out'' for Obama and urged her supporters to back him. Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 What I gathered from the lefties is that Obama started the idea of no private finance. However, he mentioned the other candidate had to be on board. It seems Obama didn't aggressively pursue the idea w/ McCain. The rationalization is that Obama 'has' public financing via the internets. However, we all know there are some special interest that contribute. Anyone know if the 527 is available to the public? It would interesting to compare the two candidates. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 And he said as much. But admitting this, shouldn't he be fair game for any criticism regarding this. He said Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 it sort of shatters the image many have of him. Do you really think so? I'm doubtful it will have any discernable effect on his image to either his followers or detractors, much less shatter it. Link to post Share on other sites
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