Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination

[Good Old Neon]

From CNN -

 

KANSAS CITY, Kansas (CNN) -- Army Spc. Jeremy Hall was raised Baptist.

 

Army Spc. Jeremy Hall, who was raised Baptist but is now an atheist, says the military violated his religious freedom.

 

1 of 2 Like many Christians, he said grace before dinner and read the Bible before bed. Four years ago when he was deployed to Iraq, he packed his Bible so he would feel closer to God.

 

He served two tours of duty in Iraq and has a near perfect record. But somewhere between the tours, something changed. Hall, now 23, said he no longer believes in God, fate, luck or anything supernatural.

 

Hall said he met some atheists who suggested he read the Bible again. After doing so, he said he had so many unanswered questions that he decided to become an atheist.

 

His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety. Watch why Hall says his lack of faith almost got him killed

[caliber66]

Michael Weinstein, a retired senior Air Force officer and founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is suing along with Hall. Weinstein said he's been contacted by more than 8,000 members of the military, almost all of them complaining of pressure to embrace evangelical Christianity.

I don't know what the bold above means. He's not a retired general; why not give his rank?

 

Another group, the Officers' Christian Fellowship, has representatives on nearly all military bases worldwide. Its vision, which is spelled out on the organization's Web site, reads, "A spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform empowered by the Holy Spirit."

There are all kinds of private organizations that draw members from among military personnel. OCF is not a military organization, nor should it be represented as such. That there are "representatives on nearly all military bases worldwide" means simply that there are members all over the world. There are "representatives" of AAA on nearly all military bases worldwide. Does that mean there is some kind of military conspiracy to force their members to get roadside assistance and free maps?

[JUDE]

There are "representatives" of AAA on nearly all military bases worldwide. Does that mean there is some kind of military conspiracy to force their members to get roadside assistance and free maps?

 

Your life is now forfeit. I hope you sleep lightly

[explodo]

It sounds like he was being about as ridiculously evangelical about his atheism as those rather annoying evangelical kids that like to tell the rest of us that we're going to burn in hell for not accepting Christ in our hearts.

[fatheadfred]

It sounds like he was being about as ridiculously evangelical about his atheism as those rather annoying evangelical kids that like to tell the rest of us that we're going to burn in hell for not accepting Christ in our hearts.

 

A story about this was printed in KC's alternative press mag, the Pitch. It revealed that dude was harassed and his rank was frozen due to the formation of the atheist club. He was shunned for not being part of team during prayer.

[caliber66]

I did not read any mention of an atheist club.

[Good Old Neon]

I don't know what the bold above means. He's not a retired general; why not give his rank?

 

Not being familiar with Mr. Weinstein, I

[PopTodd]

Wonder how many folks are gonna get in on Weinstein (obviously a Jewish guy) is only getting in on it for the cash -- and then use that as fuel for their own antisemitism?

 

 

(disclaimer: I am a Jew.)

[caliber66]

Not being familiar with Mr. Weinstein, I’m not privy to his military rank, but the following interview may help shed some light on who he is, and what his intentions are.

 

http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A158257

 

 

 

Of course not, among many other differences, AAA is not in the business of converting folks or attempting to spread what could be considered a politically charged and loaded message.

I'm not suggesting you should know his rank. I'm suggesting the author of the article should have given his rank instead of simply referring to him as a "retired senior Air Force officer." The phrase he used is potentially misleading and is more than a little hollow.

 

Regarding your second paragraph, I'm sure there are environmental organizations and other nonreligious groups that operate on military bases and are "in the business of converting folks or attempting to spread what could be considered a politically charged and loaded message."

 

If SPC Hall was discriminated against on an organizational level, that's one thing, and he has the opportunity to attempt to prove it in court. If, as the article suggests to me, his conflicts were mainly on a personal level, that's another thing. Either way, the column is a little one-sided, perhaps because SPC Hall and Mr. Weinstein are making claims the military is not going to comment on during an ongoing case.

[Good Old Neon]

I'm not suggesting you should know his rank. I'm suggesting the author of the article should have given his rank instead of simply referring to him as a "retired senior Air Force officer." The phrase he used is potentially misleading and is more than a little hollow.

 

Regarding your second paragraph, I'm sure there are environmental organizations and other nonreligious groups that operate on military bases and are "in the business of converting folks or attempting to spread what could be considered a politically charged and loaded message."

 

If SPC Hall was discriminated against on an organizational level, that's one thing, and he has the opportunity to attempt to prove it in court. If, as the article suggests to me, his conflicts were mainly on a personal level, that's another thing. Either way, the column is a little one-sided, perhaps because SPC Hall and Mr. Weinstein are making claims the military is not going to comment on during an ongoing case.

 

What makes you so sure? Something tells me, that there are not too many enlisted representatives from Greenpeace holding meetings or recruitment drives in the Green Zone. I would imagine Moveon is not well represented or received either.

 

Given the already, overly incendiary, religiously charged atmosphere in the Middle East, it would seem to me, that any attempts to make this into some sort of holy war, or even the perception, should be avoided at all costs. Otherwise, it would seem to me, that we

[cryptique]

VOA identifies Weinstein as "a former Air Force Judge Advocate, or legal officer, and one -time lawyer in the Reagan White House."

 

The Christian Science Monitor provides better reporting on this issue:

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Are U.S. troops being force-fed Christianity?

 

A watchdog group alleges that improper evangelizing is occurring within the ranks.

 

By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

 

from the October 4, 2007 edition

 

At Speicher base in Iraq, US Army Spec. Jeremy Hall got permission from a chaplain in August to post fliers announcing a meeting for atheists and other nonbelievers. When the group gathered, Specialist Hall alleges, his Army major supervisor disrupted the meeting and threatened to retaliate against him, including blocking his reenlistment in the Army.

 

Months earlier, Hall charges, he had been publicly berated by a staff sergeant for not agreeing to join in a Thanksgiving Day prayer.

 

On Sept. 17, the soldier and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) filed suit against Army Maj. Freddy Welborn and US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, charging violations of Hall's constitutional rights, including being forced to submit to a religious test to qualify as a soldier.

 

The MRFF plans more lawsuits in coming weeks, says Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, who founded the military watchdog group in 2005. The aim is "to show there is a pattern and practice of constitutionally impermissible promotions of religious beliefs within the Department of Defense."

 

For Mr. Weinstein

[Good Old Neon]

VOA identifies Weinstein as "a former Air Force Judge Advocate, or legal officer, and one -time lawyer in the Reagan White House."

 

Very informative, thanks for posting.

[caliber66]

What makes you so sure? Something tells me, that there are not too many enlisted representatives from Greenpeace holding meetings or recruitment drives in the Green Zone. I would imagine Moveon is not well represented or received either.

 

Given the already, overly incendiary, religiously charged atmosphere in the Middle East, it would seem to me, that any attempts to make this into some sort of holy war, or even the perception, should be avoided at all costs. Otherwise, it would seem to me, that we

[caliber66]

At Speicher base in Iraq, US Army Spec. Jeremy Hall got permission from a chaplain in August to post fliers announcing a meeting for atheists and other nonbelievers. When the group gathered, Specialist Hall alleges, his Army major supervisor disrupted the meeting and threatened to retaliate against him, including blocking his reenlistment in the Army.

If this is proven to be true, his Major absolutely should be disciplined, as should any superior who failed to do so previously.

[Good Old Neon]

The strangest part of all of this, from where I

[EL the Famous]

Somehow, if not for some cultural differences, I think some of these folks would get along quite well with their spiritual peers in the Middle East, Al Qaeda.

 

 

[caliber66]

 

+

 

[Lammycat]

If SPC Hall was discriminated against on an organizational level, that's one thing, and he has the opportunity to attempt to prove it in court. If, as the article suggests to me, his conflicts were mainly on a personal level, that's another thing.

Among the claims of personal harassment, this would be the meat of the case:

 

"He also said he missed out on promotions because he is an atheist.

'I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader,' Hall said."

 

Whether it's true or not is up to the courts. I do find it interesting that the only thing Hall is looking to gain is "the guarantee of religious freedom in the military."

[Good Old Neon]

I said some, not all, some. Anyone who would attempt to shape our military into an organization of god

[Guest Jules]

I said some, not all, some. Anyone who would attempt to shape our military into an organization of god's holy warriors is, at least in spirit, indistinguishable from Al Qaeda.

minus the suicide murdering

[MrRain422]

Actually not really minus that stuff at all.

[caliber66]

Actually not really minus that stuff at all.

Why? Do evangelical Christians in the military advocate suicide bombing civilian targets?

[EL the Famous]

I said some, not all, some. Anyone who would attempt to shape our military into an organization of god

[MrRain422]

Why? Do evangelical Christians in the military advocate suicide bombing civilian targets?

 

The evangelical commander in chief is happy to send people on suicide missions that will take out large numbers of civilians. It's pretty much our middle east policy.

[caliber66]

The evangelical commander in chief is happy to send people on suicide missions that will take out large numbers of civilians.

ok.