A Simple Survey

[Good Old Neon]

One could argue, then, that someone who feeds the hungry is also perpetuating poverty. RIght?

 

In a word, sort of

[austrya]

You can also educate people on ways to avoid pregnancy using methods other than artificial birth control.

 

Plus, the great majority of the people who MT helped were not Catholic or christian for that matter. They were free to use all the birth control they wanted and yet didn't.

[Good Old Neon]

You can also educate people on ways to avoid pregnancy using methods other than artificial birth control.

 

Plus, the great majority of the people who MT helped were not Catholic or christian for that matter. They were free to use all the birth control they wanted and yet didn't.

 

She worked as a catholic missionary of sorts, proselytizing and spreading the Catholic Church

[uncle wilco]

In answer to the Simple Survey, I voted "Other"

 

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

[austrya]

When used correctly, like any form of BC, NFP is just as effective.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70221065200.htm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6375261.stm

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8401097

 

The failure rate of NFP among mainly poor women in Calcutta, India, equal that of the combined oral contraceptive (0.2/100 women users yearly). Poverty was the motivating factor. NFP costs nothing, is effective (particularly in poverty stricken areas), has no side effects, and grants couples considerable power to control their fertility, indicating the NFP may be the preferred family planning method in developing countries.

[EL the Famous]

I think his justification is much more nuanced and sophisticated than one or two articles would lead you to believe.

 

Here's a third: 'So, Mr. Hitchens, Weren't You Wrong About Iraq?' by Christopher Hitchens and I read several more than that. What will watching his debates tell me outside of what i'm already reading, specifically? It's great he's well spoken, but i'd be a little more impressed if he was saying something of merit.

 

With regards to not taking him seriously, that would be a shame

[bobbob1313]

In a word, sort of

[austrya]

The poor are very great people. They can teach us so many beautiful things. Once one of them came to thank us for teaching her natural family planning and said: "You people who have practiced chastity, you are the best people to teach us natural family planning because it is nothing more than self-control out of love for each other." And what this poor person said is very true. These poor people maybe have nothing to eat, maybe they have not a home to live in, but they can still be great people when they are spiritually rich.

[Central Scrutinizer]

She worked as a catholic missionary of sorts, proselytizing and spreading the Catholic Church’s message, attempting to gain converts, etc, and the Catholic Church opposes contraception – so, what message do you think they had drilled into their heads?

Let's see, what else do they have drilling into their heads. They're starving? Their mortality rate is so high because of disease, no suitable drinking water, no library so they can check their e-mail. their children are their laborers (so we should string them up for child labor laws, have them fined for littering all in the sake of empowerment and modern community).

 

Saying women's empowerment is going to solve poverty is about as valid as saying flapping your arms is going to reduce global warming. Quoting the bible probably isn't the best thing to bring up here, but it's a great analogy: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

 

Mr. waterboarding is obviously someone who will do anything to draw attention to himself, including attack someone who aimed to help suffering, human warts and all. Quoting a bunch of other bozos suffering from the same need to draw attention -- whether negative or otherwise -- does not remove the value she has brought to the world.

 

Leaned on the Catholic Church. Sure. But did she also use her position and the church the grease the skids against governments who would otherwise not have allowed food and medicine, or stolen it to give to their own troops. Hundreds of convents? Did they get a decent meal with their Catholic doctrine. Just because she's feeding their bellies doesn't mean she's controlling their minds -- no more than the plight they face, the government that ignores them.

 

It's the same damned rock, same damned hill. You can bitch about who's pushing, you can get on the other side of the rock and push against those who are attempting to move it, or you can help move it in a direction and work on aiming it as it's moving.

[austrya]

She worked as a catholic missionary of sorts, proselytizing and spreading the Catholic Church

[Good Old Neon]

If the teaching of abstinence is such a crime in your eyes as it perpetuates poverty, all humanitarian aid of any sort short of a widespread project to establish an effective agricultural system should be viewed with similar disdain, since all they do, in the end is perpetuate poverty.

 

You are going to criticize her good deeds for their outcomes, but when it comes to the third world, it has become increasingly difficult to do good without some sort of negative effect at the end. Does this mean nobody should try?

 

You have become the king of putting words in my mouth that were never there to begin with.

[Good Old Neon]

When used correctly, like any form of BC, NFP is just as effective.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70221065200.htm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6375261.stm

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8401097

 

That

[bobbob1313]

You have become the king of putting words in my mouth that were never there to begin with.

 

I'm not putting any words into your mouth. I'm drawing conclusions based on your words, as you so often do.

 

What did I say there that is putting words into your mouth?

[Guest Jules]

I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.

[Party @ the Moontower]

A There is a lot of wasted government $$ thrown into "abstinence-only" programs. Wasted cause it's been proven not to be as effective as "safe sex" instruction. It's none of the governments business to tell people to wait until marriage.That idea is based in religion.What if they don't want to marry?What if they are gay and not allowed to marry?Must they never have sex?

 

The government should get wise to where their $$ goes.They don't seem to mind paying welfare to children born to unwed mothers. Better healthcare (free) than I can get, free food, low-income housing..etc. Perhaps teaching responsibility would have worked in some of these cases?

 

And don't get me wrong, I support the idea of helping the children, my mom had me @ a very young age, but I'm also for teaching safe sex practices.

[austrya]

NATURAL FAMILY PLANNING

 

This method involves observing a variety of body changes in the woman (such as cervical mucus changes, basal body temperature changes) and recording them on a calendar to determine when ovulation occurs. The couple abstains from unprotected sex for several days before and after the assumed day ovulation occurs.

 

This method requires education and training in recognizing the body's changes as well as a great deal of continuous and committed effort.

 

About 15 to 20 pregnancies occur over 1 year out of 100 women using this method (for those who are properly trained).

 

Your numbers are either a little out of date or your definition of NFP is the Rhythm Method. Sympto Thermal has a 1% failure rate when used correctly.

 

There are many different forms of NFP, some more effective than others.

[Party @ the Moontower]

NATURAL FAMILY PLANNING

 

This method involves observing a variety of body changes in the woman (such as cervical mucus changes, basal body temperature changes) and recording them on a calendar to determine when ovulation occurs. The couple abstains from unprotected sex for several days before and after the assumed day ovulation occurs.

 

This method requires education and training in recognizing the body's changes as well as a great deal of continuous and committed effort.

 

About 15 to 20 pregnancies occur over 1 year out of 100 women using this method (for those who are properly trained).

 

I'm a day or two over 30 with a college degree and some common sense, but I could never figure that stuff out?Cervical muscus changes and all that?You pretty much have to be a rocket scientist .

[austrya]

No you don't. Women do it all the time to figure out when they are fertile in order to get pregnant.

 

Plus, it's not just cervical mucus changes, it's basal body temp changes, cervical position changes, etc.

 

It's very easy actually and it's amazing what you learn about your own body when you try it.

[Party @ the Moontower]

No you don't. Women do it all the time to figure out when they are fertile in order to get pregnant.

 

Plus, it's not just cervical mucus changes, it's basal body temp changes, cervical position changes, etc.

 

It's very easy actually and it's amazing what you learn about your own body when you try it.

 

I'm sure it's great for some woman, just don't see it being the norm to prevent pregnancy is all.

[Guest Jules]

There are other ways to avoid getting pregnant.

[Central Scrutinizer]

A better option, would be to teach both family planning and the use of contraceptives, and make literature on both freely available

[Party @ the Moontower]

Good idea. They can read the literature when they're out working in the fields.

 

Oh, wait. They can't read.

 

Just text pics with instructions.

[Good Old Neon]

Let's see, what else do they have drilling into their heads. They're starving? Their mortality rate is so high because of disease, no suitable drinking water, no library so they can check their e-mail. their children are their laborers (so we should string them up for child labor laws, have them fined for littering all in the sake of empowerment and modern community).

 

Saying women's empowerment is going to solve poverty is about as valid as saying flapping your arms is going to reduce global warming. Quoting the bible probably isn't the best thing to bring up here, but it's a great analogy: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

 

Mr. waterboarding is obviously someone who will do anything to draw attention to himself, including attack someone who aimed to help suffering, human warts and all. Quoting a bunch of other bozos suffering from the same need to draw attention -- whether negative or otherwise -- does not remove the value she has brought to the world.

 

Leaned on the Catholic Church. Sure. But did she also use her position and the church the grease the skids against governments who would otherwise not have allowed food and medicine, or stolen it to give to their own troops. Hundreds of convents? Did they get a decent meal with their Catholic doctrine. Just because she's feeding their bellies doesn't mean she's controlling their minds -- no more than the plight they face, the government that ignores them.

 

It's the same damned rock, same damned hill. You can bitch about who's pushing, you can get on the other side of the rock and push against those who are attempting to move it, or you can help move it in a direction and work on aiming it as it's moving.

 

Most of these ills are also directly attributable to overpopulation. And how do we control overpopulation? That

[Good Old Neon]

Good idea. They can read the literature when they're out working in the fields.

 

Oh, wait. They can't read.

 

Yes, so I guess measuring cervical mucus changes and basal body temperature changes is the alternative?

 

Cannot read, work in fields

[Good Old Neon]

Your numbers are either a little out of date or your definition of NFP is the Rhythm Method. Sympto Thermal has a 1% failure rate when used correctly.

 

There are many different forms of NFP, some more effective than others.

 

It's certainly possible, my figures where taken from the National Institutes of Health.