In the spirit of bipartisanship...

[quarter23cd]

Their ironclad support of the Second Amendment. Fuckin' bear will fuck you up, man.

Amen to that. I was hiking in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee last weekend and had to concede this one universal truth:

In a wooded area known for bears, its a lot harder to be anti-gun.

[bobbob1313]

Be safe with Ike man, that thing looks like it's gonna hit somewhere on the eastern side of the state.

 

Both of my parents are going to be in Savannah, Georgia with my sister if and when it hits us. So I might be looking at boarding up two houses...

[embiggen]

I would like to see the Dems discuss details about how the government is going to change the health care system when they say "affordable health care for everyone." it's a concept that is ideal, but how is it going to be implemented successfully. details people!

[Moe_Syzlak]

I'll note what I know I disagree with each party on:

 

Democrats: Guns cannot be banned. Guns are too far a part of our culture, for better or worse, to get rid of them.

We can't be out of Iraq in 18 months.

Like I said in the other thread, I don't see how universal health care is feasible, though there were some good suggestions made there that could change my mind.

I am against affirmative action (And I'm not an old white guy!)

I think Obama's suggestion of a windfall profits tax is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

 

I'm sure there's more.

 

Republicans: People shouldn't be allowed to buy any gun they want. Nobody needs an automatic weapon in our country. AK's are for the streets of bagdhad.

I am pretty much always against the death penalty.

I am pretty much always against torture.

I am pro-choice.

At least in Florida, NCLB has fucked up a lot of schools, including my high school. That place has gone in the dumps recently.

 

I'm sure there's more.

 

My problem is that, as anyone can see from my posts, I'm a fence sitter. The world is fucking confusing, and on most issues, I simply don't know how I feel on them.

 

I pretty much agree with this. Although I think w/r/t health care, universal health care -- done right -- could save us money. We already have socialized medical care (it's called the emergency room ) and it costs us much more than some good preventative medicine would.

 

I also think, although I consider myself fiscally conservative, the GOP is kidding themselves. Much like guns, we are too far gone for a true "free market" economy, particularly as the world gets flatter.

 

I am STILL unsure about what the right course of action is in Iraq. I have to say I feel like I agree with Powell (it was him right?) when he talked about the Pottery Barn rule of "you break it you bought it." But, if it is unwinnable -- or victory would come at too high a cost -- then we ought to cut our losses. I hope the surge provides some answers to those questions soon.

 

Finally, a criticism for the whole lot of 'em: lose the campaign managers! McCain has REALLY disappointed me with his willingness to divide the country to get elected. Wedge issues serve no one except the campaigns trying to get elected. The issues that face our nation are too important to be sidetracked by these wedge politics. Also, talk to us like intelligent people, not in sound bites. There is very rarely a black and white issue and those that think the solution requires something different from what you think aren't trying to destroy America. The winner of the election doesn't just serve those that voted for him, so we need to have campaigns that don't alienate half the population.

 

/pipe dreams

 

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

[Winston Legthigh]

I can't stand that the "debates" are not actually debates, but are canned and planned opportunities for platforms and soundbites.

It really pissed me off when Nader was not only not invited, but was threatened with arrest when he had a ticket to attend a debate in 2000.

The candidates are informed of the questions beforehand, and they only answer the moderator - they don't ever actually debate.

[Guest Jules]

I would like to see the Dems discuss details about how the government is going to change the health care system when they say "affordable health care for everyone." it's a concept that is ideal, but how is it going to be implemented successfully. details people!

it's not

[bobbob1313]

it's not

In the spirit of bipartisanship...

[embiggen]

it's not

 

 

"details people"

[Central Scrutinizer]

Both of my parents are going to be in Savannah, Georgia with my sister if and when it hits us. So I might be looking at boarding up two houses...

11 a.m. NHC projection has it on west side of the peninsula but those projects, despite their best efforts, are a crapshoot.

[bobbob1313]

11 a.m. NHC projection has it on west side of the peninsula but those projects, despite their best efforts, are a crapshoot.

 

Well, it looks like it won't hit until Wednesday, but I don't think my parents are planning on coming back until Monday or Tuesday. My dad is driving back Monday, so he should make it, but my mom is flying on Tuesday. Who knows.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I also think, although I consider myself fiscally conservative, the GOP is kidding themselves. Much like guns, we are too far gone for a true "free market" economy, particularly as the world gets flatter.

There are a lot of viewpoints among CEOs that the world will get unflat due to energy prices. Ocean carriers, manufacturers, sourcing materials are reaching a point that transportation costs are the overriding cost of product, so they are already making plans to move sourcing materials back to regional markets -- boosting Latin America and Mexico within the Americas, intra-Asia sourcing among developing countries and the north-south bloc of Europe and Africa.

 

And as both Rep. and Dem become more protectionist, we're steering backwards from a "free market"

[Guest Jules]

As a small business owner, the tax issues are pretty high on my list. Specifically reducing the corporate tax rate, elimination of the death tax and/or reduction w/increase to exemption, phase out of the AMT, first year expensing of equipment. Obama's tax/wage plans will make it harder for us to keep business here.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I can't stand that the "debates" are not actually debates, but are canned and planned opportunities for platforms and soundbites.

It really pissed me off when Nader was not only not invited, but was threatened with arrest when he had a ticket to attend a debate in 2000.

The candidates are informed of the questions beforehand, and they only answer the moderator - they don't ever actually debate.

I thought HRC had a brilliant proposal to Obama, that they have an ol' fashioned Lincoln-Douglas style debate, where the candidates ask each other questions without a moderator (maybe a bouncer). I think Obama-McCain would be debates we'd be reading about 100 years later (of course, as we'll be under Chinese rule, they would have a slightly different take).

[Central Scrutinizer]

As a small business owner, the tax issues are pretty high on my list. Specifically reducing the corporate tax rate, elimination of the death tax and/or reduction w/increase to exemption, phase out of the AMT, first year expensing of equipment. Obama's tax/wage plans will make it harder for us to keep business here.

On your last point, I don't think U.S. business can make that case anymore. I think all that could shift abroad has already done so. As I pointed out a few posts ago, manufacturing is winging its way back to the Americas due to energy costs for sourcing and delivery far outweighing employee costs.

 

As a businessman, as with all other costs, don't you merely pass it onto your consumer in order to protect your profit margin?

[Central Scrutinizer]

it's not

It can and will -- there can be a pragmatic, bipartisan solution. It will have to make the government the health care provider (business owner) who will negotiate with the health care providers. U.S. will have strength of negotiation through size of customer base, while providers will benefit because they will have predictable, scalable business that will help them control costs.

 

Those who can pay will require a portional "co-pay." It would add a degree of bureaucracy, but a standardized system rather than the confusion of business switching from one plan to another every year. People would be expected to be more responsible for their use of health care, through either a deductable system, or at least a means of tracking hypochondriacs or abusers of the system.

 

Someone pointed out we already have a degree of standardized health care -- combination of emergency room and health care insurers as big business. As the biggest customer, the U.S. would bring standardization to the process of health care.

 

Corporate approach could then be turned to selling the non-coverable health care -- plastic surgery, specialization, old fashioned "sanitarium"-style facilities for those willing to pay."

[Guest Jules]

On your last point, I don't think U.S. business can make that case anymore. I think all that could shift abroad has already done so. As I pointed out a few posts ago, manufacturing is winging its way back to the Americas due to energy costs for sourcing and delivery far outweighing employee costs.

 

As a businessman, as with all other costs, don't you merely pass it onto your consumer in order to protect your profit margin?

Heh, well, I wish it was that easy. Maybe your point is valid in certain industries, I don't know, but not in mine. We have some labor intensive products (thankfully not all of them), and there's still a big push to source elsehwere and rake us over the coals for cost reductions every year. You can't get blood from a rock. I'm getting really tired of all the time I devote to justifying my pricing/cost structure, kissing ass, etc. vs. just focusing on making and selling a good product. We have passed along increased costs, yes, but we are usually forced to pass through directly, with no extra margin. In the end, our margin percentages decrease.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Heh, well, I wish it was that easy. Maybe your point is valid in certain industries, I don't know, but not in mine. We have some labor intensive products (thankfully not all of them), and there's still a big push to source elsehwere and rake us over the coals for cost reductions every year. You can't get blood from a rock. I'm getting really tired of all the time I devote to justifying my pricing/cost structure, kissing ass, etc. vs. just focusing on making and selling a good product. We have passed along increased costs, yes, but we are usually forced to pass through directly, with no extra margin. In the end, our margin percentages decrease.

I'm guessing technology, or light manufacturing where you're not dealing with large cube or weight issues to market?

 

As far as the push for cost reductions, you can blame Wal-Mart for that as much as the government. They've put every entity in the supply chain's tit in a ringer to squeeze out every penny they can. That predator mindset has spread so much that you left trying to find places to pass off the loss of margin.

[Guest Jules]

I'm guessing technology, or light manufacturing where you're not dealing with large cube or weight issues to market?

 

As far as the push for cost reductions, you can blame Wal-Mart for that as much as the government. They've put every entity in the supply chain's tit in a ringer to squeeze out every penny they can. That predator mindset has spread so much that you left trying to find places to pass off the loss of margin.

Yes, light manufacturing. I wasn't implying it's the government's fault. It's just the way business is done these days, and it's frustrating. There are consultants all over the place implementing these strategic sourcing programs. It's more and more a numbers game, and less of a loyalty and quality game. There is a place for it, and we've implemented similar strategies with our supply base, but in some cases it causes more problems than it solves.

 

We have been able to maintain business and gain new by continuing to invest in new machinery and technology for improved efficiency. The tax breaks and investement incentives do encourage this.

[miss jayne]

My biggest problem with the Dems is the 'fox guarding the henhouse' issue. Until the election process and campaign finance is truly reformed, government will continue to serve corporate interests rather than citizen interests.

 

Right on!

 

I would add that the Republicans have implemented a government who's foreign policy is being dictated by a think tank (http://www.newamericancentury.org/). To me this feels like taxation with out representation. Let the tea party begin.

[Central Scrutinizer]

We have been able to maintain business and gain new by continuing to invest in new machinery and technology for improved efficiency. The tax breaks and investement incentives do encourage this.

I think this is key -- along with training, educating employees -- and I think the Dems are fully in favor of these types of credits. Incentives to invest in making your business better -- not building a bigger golden parachute for the 3rd CEO to be tossed out by a big company in as many years.

[theashtraysays]

I'm guessing technology, or light manufacturing where you're not dealing with large cube or weight issues to market?

 

As far as the push for cost reductions, you can blame Wal-Mart for that as much as the government. They've put every entity in the supply chain's tit in a ringer to squeeze out every penny they can. That predator mindset has spread so much that you left trying to find places to pass off the loss of margin.

This is our fault as a consumer society, not the government or Wal-Mart or big bidness. Yes, WM is a machine and a nasty one at that. But we're the ones buying the $10 DVD player and camping out on Black Friday for the low-low priced plasma. We're the fuel. That's a generalization, and not everyone plays into that mentality as consumers, but it's us. We made WM the world's largest corporation, and the largest importer from China. I know they're a horrible corporate player in many ways, but we get to look in the mirror on that one. We made them.

 

As for world flatness, I think it will continue to get flatter. Yes, energy/transportation is a speed bump in that process, but we are offshoring things today that we never thought possible even 10 years ago. I've spent time in the south China manufacturing region, and I see where it's going. And I see companies chasing lower wages rates to some might lowly places, as Jules said, in the insatiable quest for cost reductions. It's insane, but it's not going to stop. At least as long as we keep buying $10 DVD players. And what politician in his/her right mind will throw a monkey wrench in that little slice of the American dream? None.

 

So back to the topic of the thread, that's the plan I'd like to see - how to end that offshoring madness before we collapse as an economy and I have to learn Mandarin. I share your frustration, Jules... wish I had a lotta answers.

[Central Scrutinizer]

This is our fault as a consumer society, not the government or Wal-Mart or big bidness. Yes, WM is a machine and a nasty one at that. But we're the ones buying the $10 DVD player and camping out on Black Friday for the low-low priced plasma. We're the fuel. That's a generalization, and not everyone plays into that mentality as consumers, but it's us. We made WM the world's largest corporation, and the largest importer from China. I know they're a horrible corporate player in many ways, but we get to look in the mirror on that one. We made them.

 

As for world flatness, I think it will continue to get flatter. Yes, energy/transportation is a speed bump in that process, but we are offshoring things today that we never thought possible even 10 years ago. I've spent time in the south China manufacturing region, and I see where it's going. And I see companies chasing lower wages rates to some might lowly places, as Jules said, in the insatiable quest for cost reductions. It's insane, but it's not going to stop. At least as long as we keep buying $10 DVD players. And what politician in his/her right mind will throw a monkey wrench in that little slice of the American dream? None.

 

So back to the topic of the thread, that's the plan I'd like to see - how to end that offshoring madness before we collapse as an economy and I have to learn Mandarin. I share your frustration, Jules... wish I had a lotta answers.

I think you'll need a mighty big mirror, because as manufacturing continues to look for these pockets of low-cost labor (remember low-cost labor = deprived culture, willing to do anything to feed (and maybe clothe) itself. Why do they have to continue to look? The more educated and structured the labor pool becomes, the more $ it wants, and once it has disposal income, it sees the opportunity to buy the same shit they're making for the "western" world. It's moved from Japan, to Korea, to Thailand, to China, India, over to Vietnam and throughout Asia, Latin America.

 

Why are energy costs climbing? In part because there are consumers of fuel, cars and products in China, India, etc.

 

Through capitalism and consumption, claiming the world is flat is like trying to unroll wallpaper with one hand -- the edges curl and roll as the paper reacts to its form.

[sweetheart-mine]

Right on!

 

I would add that the Republicans have implemented a government who's foreign policy is being dictated by a think tank (http://www.newamericancentury.org/). To me this feels like taxation with out representation. Let the tea party begin.

the project for the new american century is one of the scariest aspects of the whole neocon movement. their "rebuilding america's defenses" is a must-read.

[Mrs. Peel]

Amen to that. I was hiking in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee last weekend and had to concede this one universal truth:

In a wooded area known for bears, its a lot harder to be anti-gun.

 

Then we should be hiking with tranquilizer guns, not real ones. It is their natural habitat, after all, and they are just walking around in their "neighborhood". If you spook them they're just going to try to defend themselves and possibly their own family.

[Winston Legthigh]

Then we should be hiking with tranquilizer guns, not real ones. It is their natural habitat, after all, and they are just walking around in their "neighborhood". If you spook them they're just going to try to defend themselves and possibly their own family.

*sees charging bear*

 

Hmm, I wonder how heavy that bear is so that I can appropriately calculate the right amout of tranquilizer to use. Kind of a Goldilocks dilemma... Too little and I won't put it down, too much and I might accidentally kill it... Judging by its velocity and momentum, I'm guessing about 1200 lbs, so that should require about... *mauled*

 

And... Scene!