New and Improved 3-ply election thread...

[sweetheart-mine]

Maybe they're just trying to drastically lower expectations.

yes, that must be it.

[quarter23cd]

McCain is on record stating that "he has always been in favor of deregulation". He said that in March of this year while chatting with reporters from the Wall St Journal.

He was, up until about a week ago. Then he was kind of for it, but now he is against it again. Or something.

[Good Old Neon]

Protecting her against witches seems kind of pointless--I thought her adversaries were all godless secular humanists?

 

And besides, the GOP is probably wishing right now that somebody would come along and turn her into a Newt.

 

 

 

 

Well, when you

[kwall]

Maybe they're just trying to drastically lower expectations.

it's incomprehensible that they're making her defend this "geographic proximity" notion that the mccain people obviously came up with. her fumbling with it tells me that she doesn't even believe it. on any other answer, she just sounds inexperienced, which is forgivable. on this answer, she sounds like a charlatan, which is unforgivable. and there's no upside to it.

[NightOfJoy]

Ok, here's one thing Bush did right.

 

Did not go along with Olmert's (no longer in power) plan for bombing the shit out of Iran

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/2...hepalestinians1

 

I would have welcomed that. 'bout time Israel did something. I'm tired of America being Israel's errand boy.

[quarter23cd]

Anyone who votes and believes in witches ought to be sent into a special booth with a fake ballot and a trash barrel in which to deposit it.

I don't think these people are going to be too happy about your trash barrel plan.

[John Smith]

well, it seems that you often cite these people as being representative of conservatives and conservative thought. perhaps basing your view of the opposition on a handful of "1%ers" is an unfair generalization?

 

I'm telling you the people/conservatives I know where I live love him dearly and you tell me I'm wrong? Interesting. I don't know of a single self proclaimed conservative where I live who has anything bad to say about Bush or his policies. Some, with a straight face, will argue vehemently that he is the best president ever. My in-laws ask me what they are missing when they listen to their friends make loving statements about Bush. You can choose to believe this or not , but it is what I face everyday where I live. The closest anyone comes to criticizing him is they might criticize a policy, say the Iraq war, but they totally disassociate that war from Bush. Anything that was wrong with it is the fault of others, usually liberals or disloyal appointees.

 

What I do see is people say he's not a conservative (and he's not by the standards I grew up with, then again neither was Reagan), but they will not say a single thing bad that he has done, they will invariably find a way to blame congress, or just blame democrats. Or if a policy is obviously failed, like Iraq they blame those who planned it or executed it or say give it time. But they strenuously avoid criticizing Bush directly for anything.

 

By the way he is a conservative, conservatism has changed from what it once was to the radical mess we have before us today. When I was a conservative the mainstream conservatives were like Ron Paul and the radicals were like Bush. To blame the mess today on Bush by saying he is not a conservative is to ignore the last almost 30 years of how conservatives have lost their sense of fiscal responsibility (which means much more than just lower taxes by the way). By applying the statement

[quarter23cd]

it's incomprehensible that they're making her defend this "geographic proximity" notion that the mccain people obviously came up with. her fumbling with it tells me that she doesn't even believe it. on any other answer, she just sounds inexperienced, which is forgivable. on this answer, she sounds like a charlatan, which is unforgivable. and there's no upside to it.

Agreed.

[kwall]

I'm telling you the people/conservatives I know where I live love him dearly and you tell me I'm wrong?

no, i believe you. i'm telling you you're making a generalization.

 

If you don

[Good Old Neon]

I don't think these people are going to be too happy about your trash barrel plan.

 

Alright, I

[John Smith]

no, i believe you. i'm telling you you're making a generalization.

 

 

conservatism is not defined by what recent politicians or parties who claim that label are doing.

 

A generaliztion that applies to nearly everyone I know? The county I live in has put something like 70% votes for Bush in the last two elections. It is one of the counties in Illinois that the nut running against Obama actually won when he ran for senate. From my perspective, and theirs, they are what conservatism is. They apply lip service to the old principles of censervatism, but it does not exist any more in any shape that has enough influence in our country. Just because some out there say "that's not conservatism" does not make it so. It is what it is today, definitions change over time (the word virgin in the old testament originally meant unmarried woman, now it means not having had sex yet.). You may not like it, I sure don't but that is what we have today.

 

Also when i have brought up that liberal is was what the founding fathers and people Such as Abe Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt were all about I have been told that the definition has changed over time. I agree, but that does nto change the fact that those guys were liberals and it in no way changes the definition of liberal that is in use today. Which there are apparently two. Rigth wingers view the word liberal as being as bad or worse than the nasty combo's of cuss words you can imagine, while the rest of us use the term progressive.

[kwall]

[John Smith]

 

You are expressing how I feel exactly. But please tell me how if you say the president is not conservative and the congress has moved in lock step with him, and the 30% will not leave him who are the conservatives? What do they believ in anymore? Because there are no true conservatives in Congress outside of Ron Paul and a couple of others and you saw the support Paul has recieved on a national basis. So who are the conservatives these days?

[kwall]

But please tell me how if you say the president is not conservative and the congress has moved in lock step with him, and the 30% will not leave him who are the conservatives? What do they believ in anymore?

republicanism.

 

Because there are no true conservatives in Congress outside of Ron Paul and a couple of others and you saw the support Paul has recieved on a national basis.

agreed.

 

So who are the conservatives these days?

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

http://www.lp.org/

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

[John Smith]

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

http://www.lp.org/

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

 

Marginal groups. None of these are mainstream. My point has been that you can cling to the label all you want but the public has a new definition of what a conservative is, the perception has changed. What it was it no longer is anymore in spite of what splinter groups may say. Even if you don

[Sal]

How does Wamu 's thing affect me? I bank there and I'm supposed to have a direct deposit go in tomorrow.

 

 

 

Wow, O'Reilly actually put it to people that deserve it. Props to him.

 

 

Good post. I'm not an O'Reilly fan, but that was great.

[mountain bed]

I'm not sure who this radio commentator Ed Schultz is, but here's his take this morning

 

McCain Camp insiders say Palin "clueless"

Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people

are more than concerned about Palin. The campaign has held

a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as "disastrous." One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, "What are we going to do?" The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is "clueless."

I've heard Schultz a number of times. He seems like a very straightforward dude.

[kwall]

Even if you don

[John Smith]

the folks at merriam-webster forgot to consult you: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism

 

Common usage, Webters is not always up to date, But I'll drop them a note...

[kwall]

[Party @ the Moontower]

How does Wamu 's thing affect me? I bank there and I'm supposed to have a direct deposit go in tomorrow.

 

 

 

Wow, O'Reilly actually put it to people that deserve it. Props to him.

 

 

What's wrong with O'Reilly? Awesome...finally he speaks out against Bush and the jerks responsible here..."ya big fat toad".

[John Smith]

As of this morning I say no bailout. and play it by ear and put out fires as they erupt.

[mfwahl]

kwall I'm with you on this one if it's any consolidation. Conservatism is a set ideals, some I agree with, that neocons don't really practice.

[kwall]

What's wrong with O'Reilly?

he's a douchebag blowhard.

[John Smith]

he's a douchebag blowhard.

There, we have a point of agreement today.