The Big 3

[MattZ]

I mean, for instance, American Express is becoming a bank holding company to firm up its bottom line--I don't think they're getting out of the credit card business. Goldman Sachs is looking into offering online savings accounts--I don't think that will be the bulk of their business.

 

Yeah, but my point was that there are strings that come attached to being a bank holding company. And if Amex or Goldman go that route, they are stuck with those strings. Reserve requirements, etc. So, even if they continue their "businesses" they are still subject to the same restrictions. Which means the rules weren't really changed for them.

 

I guess it's not yet clear--you could be right.

 

Right back atcha.

[Edie]

Goldman wants to be able to borrow from the government discount window as well -- and they need bank status for that.

[MrRain422]

[cryptique]

Gotta love this.

[explodo]

Gotta love this.

That's great.

[ZenLunatic]

Auto Bailout passed the House. Now they are saying it may not pass Senate in its current state. The vote will be held soon on it but expected to fail at least the first time around. They want more responsibility taken by the auto companies before they get any money.

 

There is still hope that this may not happen.

[cryptique]

I guess Richard Shelby doesn't really care if he's remembered as the Man Who Killed The Auto Industry.

 

I have to say, the coverage of this issue on the local news here in southeast Michigan has been absolutely disgusting. They have completely abandoned even the slightest pretense of objective journalism, and are actively cheerleading for the bailout. You won't hear a single word during their broadcasts that runs contrary to the pro-bailout agenda, unless they're showing clips of someone like Shelby and shaking their heads and acting like he's Osama bin Laden or something.

 

I watch the NBC affiliate more than the Fox or ABC channels (the CBS affiliate folded up its news operations several years ago), and the local NBCers have been particularly brazen in advocating for the bailout. I've seen some similar behavior on the local Fox channel. Haven't watched the ABC affiliate enough to form any conclusions yet.

[ZenLunatic]

I guess Richard Shelby doesn't really care if he's remembered as the Man Who Killed The Auto Industry.

 

I have to say, the coverage of this issue on the local news here in southeast Michigan has been absolutely disgusting. They have completely abandoned even the slightest pretense of objective journalism, and are actively cheerleading for the bailout. You won't hear a single word during their broadcasts that runs contrary to the pro-bailout agenda, unless they're showing clips of someone like Shelby and shaking their heads and acting like he's Osama bin Laden or something.

 

I watch the NBC affiliate more than the Fox or ABC channels (the CBS affiliate folded up its news operations several years ago), and the local NBCers have been particularly brazen in advocating for the bailout. I've seen some similar behavior on the local Fox channel. Haven't watched the ABC affiliate enough to form any conclusions yet.

 

Shelby isnt alone in this and also probably in the group that is more thoughtful of the situation than the opposition. The auto companies probably spend millions on lobbyists to spread propaganda like you see there.

[IATTBYB]

Shelby isnt alone in this and also probably in the group that is more thoughtful of the situation than the opposition. The auto companies probably spend millions on lobbyists to spread propaganda like you see there.

Oh please, give me a break. Shelby has a vested interest in this as Alabama has increasingly had more and more investment in auto manufacturing by foreign name plates. He and the other southern senators who have been the most vocal opponents of the bailout have no qualms about busting the Big 3 and the resulting consequences to the UAW.

[MrRain422]

Shelby isnt alone in this and also probably in the group that is more thoughtful of the situation than the opposition. The auto companies probably spend millions on lobbyists to spread propaganda like you see there.

 

You really don't think that Shelby's interest in this has anything to do with the foreign auto companies who are so big in Alabama? I mean, it's fine if you agree with him, it's just a little naive to think that he doesn't have just as much self-interest in this as his counterparts from Michigan. He's just as much a mouthpiece of auto company lobbyists as those who are for the bailout, he's just paid off by different auto companies.

 

Edit: Yeah, what he said.

[ZenLunatic]

You really don't think that Shelby's interest in this has anything to do with the foreign auto companies who are so big in Alabama? I mean, it's fine if you agree with him, it's just a little naive to think that he doesn't have just as much self-interest in this as his counterparts from Michigan. He's just as much a mouthpiece of auto company lobbyists as those who are for the bailout, he's just paid off by different auto companies.

 

Edit: Yeah, what he said.

 

You're right, I dont know about Shelby except his stance on this. I just agree with his side. I dont know his alter motives. I have heard other senators talk about there views and lumped Shelby in with them.

[mountain bed]

Anyone wanna make a guess at what the Dow closes at today?

[dondoboy]

A little credit is due to Ford, who don't need the bailout.

[ZenLunatic]

What are the chances the president will use TARP funds to help auto industry?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Chances seem high.

 

And I'm guessing that would have fewer restrictions and caveats than the House plan.

[ZenLunatic]

Well I guess the answer is 100% now. US Treasury vowed to help auto industry from bankruptcy until next Congress meeting. Whatever money that requires.

[ZenLunatic]

The biggest reason why it didnt pass Senate was that the UAW didnt want to cut wages until 2011 when current contracts expires. It seems like a game of chicken, because it is better to have a job with less pay than no job. For now, the UAW won.

[MrRain422]

Why does the UAW even have anything to do with this? McConnell's demand that their wages come in line with foreign automakers in the U.S. was laughable, considering the Toyota plant in Kentucky, which is their largest in the world outside of Japan, pays their workers more than UAW workers are paid. This whole thing is a farce to bust the union, even though the union is not why the auto companies are struggling. How about a cut in executive salaries, which actually are significantly more than their foreign company counterparts?

[ZenLunatic]

Why does the UAW even have anything to do with this? McConnell's demand that their wages come in line with foreign automakers in the U.S. was laughable, considering the Toyota plant in Kentucky, which is their largest in the world outside of Japan, pays their workers more than UAW workers are paid. This whole thing is a farce to bust the union, even though the union is not why the auto companies are struggling. How about a cut in executive salaries, which actually are significantly more than their foreign company counterparts?

 

The UAW is a big reason why the companies are struggling thus why the wage cuts. Wouldnt you take a pay cut to keep your company alive to perserve your job? Shouldnt your wages reflect how well your company is performing? If you want to borrow billions, wages need to be reduced.

[isadorah]

The UAW is a big reason why the companies are struggling thus why the wage cuts. Wouldnt you take a pay cut to keep your company alive to perserve your job? Shouldnt your wages reflect how well your company is performing? If you want to borrow billions, wages need to be reduced.

 

 

Answer that question when you actually have to take a pay cut in order to keep your job and can then barely pay your bills, put food on the table, and live a semblance of a normal life.

 

A CEOs wages should reflect how well a company is performing. The regular worker's wages should reflect what peers are making doing the exact same job elsewhere. The wages should also keep up with inflation and cost of living increases. If they don't or workers don't receive cost of living increases, then that is the same thing as taking a pay cut.

[bjorn_skurj]

What are the chances the president will use TARP funds to help auto industry?

Oh, about 100 percent or so.

[isadorah]

Oh, about 100 percent or so.

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?hpid=topnews

[ZenLunatic]

Answer that question when you actually have to take a pay cut in order to keep your job and can then barely pay your bills, put food on the table, and live a semblance of a normal life.

 

A CEOs wages should reflect how well a company is performing. The regular worker's wages should reflect what peers are making doing the exact same job elsewhere. The wages should also keep up with inflation and cost of living increases. If they don't or workers don't receive cost of living increases, then that is the same thing as taking a pay cut.

 

All wages should reflect the company's performance. You cant take a failing company and say the wages should be as high as a successful company of the same type.

 

Some money is better than no money. The cost of living is all relative to the type of person you are. A pay cut is reducing your current pay.

 

The agruement cannot be won on your side, but it is a game of chicken and the UAW has won for now. It is just a matter of time anyways before the auto industry needs more money and the government will say NO finally. The future is not good with the same people running these companies.

[JUDE]

Answer that question when you actually have to take a pay cut in order to keep your job and can then barely pay your bills, put food on the table, and live a semblance of a normal life.

 

I have and we are looking at additional cuts, reductions in hours and a possible work-share program this year.

 

Speaking as a former UAW worker many of the issues that the UAW gets taken to task for are very real. For example, when I worked for the UAW and a temporary slowdown was forecasted, the senior employees would trample the juniors in order to take a voluntary layoff, that sub-pay clause in the contract was a sweet deal.

 

Yes the big 3 CEO's pay is an issue but so are the practices of the UAW. For example someone please defend the UAW Golf Course.. I'll maintain the in the past decade, the unions have had a much better profit margin than any of the manufactures.

[ZenLunatic]

Really what the Auto Companies should do is in Jan. go back to Congress with a bigger bailout package say $50 Billion. I think it may work, just like the TARP did.