William Devereux "Billy" Zantzinger dead

[calvino]

One of my favorite Dylan tunes. One of his many songs about a specific event that is still as relevant today as it was when he wrote it. It's great that he still plays it on a pretty regularly basis. (Saw Dylan perform it as recently as 11/08 in Kalamazoo.)

 

http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/lonesome-d...-hattie-carroll

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lonesome_..._Hattie_Carroll

 

from wiki (I think Dylan was "easy" on Mr. Zanzinger)

 

In 2001, Zantzinger told Howard Sounes, in Down the Highway, the Life of Bob Dylan, "It's actually had no effect upon my life," but expressed scorn for Dylan, saying, "He's a no-account son of a bitch, he's just like a scum of a scum bag [sic] of the earth, I should have sued him and put him in jail." Zantzinger claims the song is "a total lie", though it closely reflects the facts which led to his 1963 conviction. He has not attempted to prevent Dylan from performing it.

 

and

 

In addition to his federal tax delinquencies, Zantzinger fell more than $18,000 behind on county taxes on properties he owned in two Charles County communities called Patuxent Woods and Indian Head, shanties he leased to poor blacks.[9][10] In 1986, the same year the IRS ruled against him, Charles County confiscated those properties. Nonetheless, Zantzinger continued to collect rents, raise rents, and even successfully prosecute his putative tenants for back rent.[1]

 

This went on until 1991. At that point, the Maryland Independent newspaper broke the scandal: in a hamlet about thirty miles from Washington, D.C., Zantzinger was charging black families rent to live in shacks he no longer owned.[1] Even when he had owned them, prior to their confiscation by the county, the poorly-maintained properties in Patuxent Woods and Indian Head were in violation of county habitability codes, lacking water and sewer connections. Lacking even outhouses, the human waste dumped on the ground contaminated the water in the shallow wells. He was charging as much as $200 a month for these buildings, which also lacked modern heat.[1] In one example, a four-room shanty contained at least six people.[11

[Sir Stewart]

Good riddance to a son of a bitch.

The song never fails to move me.

[mjpuczko]

wow. what a piece of shit. i had no clue about the landlord stuff. have fun in hell

[cryptique]

I can't find any confirmation that this son of a bitch is dead. Link?

[calvino]

I can't find any confirmation that this son of a bitch is dead. Link?

 

 

http://thebaynet.com/announcements/index.c...nnounce_ID/4654

 

I found the link on the Expectingrain site.

[Moss]

Good riddance. To quote another Dylan song:

 

And I hope that you die

And your death'll come soon

I will follow your casket

In the pale afternoon

And I'll watch while you're lowered

Down to your deathbed

And I'll stand o'er your grave

'Til I'm sure that you're dead

[Sir Stewart]

The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll

 

William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll

With a cane that he twirled around his diamond ring finger

At a Baltimore hotel society gath'rin'.

And the cops were called in and his weapon took from him

As they rode him in custody down to the station

And booked William Zanzinger for first-degree murder.

But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,

Take the rag away from your face.

Now ain't the time for your tears.

 

William Zanzinger, who at twenty-four years

Owns a tobacco farm of six hundred acres

With rich wealthy parents who provide and protect him

And high office relations in the politics of Maryland,

Reacted to his deed with a shrug of his shoulders

And swear words and sneering, and his tongue it was snarling,

In a matter of minutes on bail was out walking.

But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,

Take the rag away from your face.

Now ain't the time for your tears.

 

Hattie Carroll was a maid of the kitchen.

She was fifty-one years old and gave birth to ten children

Who carried the dishes and took out the garbage

And never sat once at the head of the table

And didn't even talk to the people at the table

Who just cleaned up all the food from the table

And emptied the ashtrays on a whole other level,

Got killed by a blow, lay slain by a cane

That sailed through the air and came down through the room,

Doomed and determined to destroy all the gentle.

And she never done nothing to William Zanzinger.

But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,

Take the rag away from your face.

Now ain't the time for your tears.

 

In the courtroom of honor, the judge pounded his gavel

To show that all's equal and that the courts are on the level

And that the strings in the books ain't pulled and persuaded

And that even the nobles get properly handled

Once that the cops have chased after and caught 'em

And that the ladder of law has no top and no bottom,

Stared at the person who killed for no reason

Who just happened to be feelin' that way without warnin'.

And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished,

And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance,

William Zanzinger with a six-month sentence.

Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,

Bury the rag deep in your face

For now's the time for your tears.

 

Copyright

[Jesusetc84]

He was scum.

 

I found it odd how Dylan was demonize scum on occasion like Zanzinger, but then champion someone like Joey who was also scum, or Hurricane Carter, who actually still has a lot of evidence pointing to him as the perpetrator of those murders.

[mjpuczko]

joey was a mobster, they're always cool

as far as ruben carter, i think at the time it seemed unfair but as the years went on it became a little more muddy. also, after dylan & the RTR did that whole campaign to get him out, carter wanted nothing to do with them.

[Jesusetc84]

joey was a mobster, they're always cool

as far as ruben carter, i think at the time it seemed unfair but as the years went on it became a little more muddy. also, after dylan & the RTR did that whole campaign to get him out, carter wanted nothing to do with them.

 

 

John Wesley Harding, oddly enough, was completely racist too, and killed way more blacks than William did...but once again, he was a cowboy, which is a cool thing...like a mobster or a boxer...but not like a plantation owner.

 

I'm not saying that makes Zantzinger a good person, it's just funny how like...equally bad people can be "cool" under certain circumstances.

[mjpuczko]

huh, didn't know that. interesting.

[Jesusetc84]

huh, didn't know that. interesting.

 

My roommate in college told me that...he was obsessed with the wild west...I never bothered to cross reference it, because I figured he knew his stuff.

 

Though I think in the case of Joey and John Wesley, Bob was just trying to write his own take on the "Pretty Boy Floyd" anti-hero type.

[dondoboy]

Savage.

[calvino]

Few more links here, today:

 

http://expectingrain.com/

[Analogman]

John Wesley Harding, oddly enough, was completely racist too, and killed way more blacks than William did...but once again, he was a cowboy, which is a cool thing...like a mobster or a boxer...but not like a plantation owner.

 

I'm not saying that makes Zantzinger a good person, it's just funny how like...equally bad people can be "cool" under certain circumstances.

 

 

John Wesley Hardin

[NightOfJoy]

For some reason, I find "Joey" completely grating to my ears.

[Sir Stewart]

For some reason, I find "Joey" completely grating to my ears.

 

Me too - I don't think I've ever heard the whole thing twice.

[calvino]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/us/10zan.../partner/rssnyt

 

The song is about a specific event, yes. Dylan did take some "poetic" liberties (like most do). What makes this song so great is not because it is about the specific event, but the overall theme of if you have money, the justice system sees you in a different manner. All this talk of Dylan "slandering" or creating non existing scenes about this Zanzinger fellow is kinda absurd. Zanzinger is not the subject of this song. Injustice is. Of course, I might feel differently about this if I were Zanzinger. But critics should know better.

[Lammycat]

For some reason, I find "Joey" completely grating to my ears.

When Dylan was playing with the Dead they covered "Joey" with Garcia singing. It was delightful and humorous and actually kind of nice all in one.

[MattZ]

I had a discussion with a co-worker of mine about this story last week. A self-described Dylan fan. He didn't get the Zanzinger reference. Didn't make the connection. I pushed him on it and he told me that he "knew" the song, but didn't really "focus" on the "lyrics" that closely.

 

Can someone be a Dylan fan and not get the Zanzinger reference right off the bat? Is this possible? I dont mean literally. I understand that Dylan has a gazillion albums, and it is entirely possible for someone to like an artist but not be familiar with every single song they've ever put out. But this seems particularly egregious.

 

Survey says...?

[Sir Stewart]

I had a discussion with a co-worker of mine about this story last week. A self-described Dylan fan. He didn't get the Zanzinger reference. Didn't make the connection. I pushed him on it and he told me that he "knew" the song, but didn't really "focus" on the "lyrics" that closely.

 

Can someone be a Dylan fan and not get the Zanzinger reference right off the bat? Is this possible? I dont mean literally. I understand that Dylan has a gazillion albums, and it is entirely possible for someone to like an artist but not be familiar with every single song they've ever put out. But this seems particularly egregious.

 

Survey says...?

Well, I become more well-versed in Dylan's catalog as I get older. I can recall a time when a Hattie Carroll reference would've gone over my head. About a decade ago I used to talk Dylan with a co-worker at a newspaper. One day he walked up to me excitedly to show me the headline he wrote for a story about the circus. I faked enthusiasm, and assumed 'one hand is tied to the tightrope walker...' was a Dylan reference. Looking back, I can't believe there was a time I didn't know that line.

[MattZ]

Well, I become more well-versed in Dylan's catalog as I get older. I can recall a time when a Hattie Carroll reference would've gone over my head. About a decade ago I used to talk Dylan with a co-worker at a newspaper. One day he walked up to me excitedly to show me the headline he wrote for a story about the circus. I faked enthusiasm, and assumed 'one hand is tied to the tightrope walker...' was a Dylan reference. Looking back, I can't believe there was a time I didn't know that line.

 

Yeah, I guess the catalog is so enormous, that it's possible to miss, and there are probably references that I'd still miss. I didn't mean for the question to sound all snooty and whatnot. I just thought that the song itself, the refrain and the subjects were as central to his catalog as any.

 

At the end of the day, anyone can be a fan of anything for any reason and they don't have to pass a credibility test for me. But, I dont know. Can someone be a fan of Martin Scorsese and not know who Henry Hill is? I guess the answer is yes. But it just seems weird.

[cryptique]

Can someone be a Dylan fan and not get the Zanzinger reference right off the bat?

Maybe if, like I did for a while, someone thinks the lyric is "Williams and Zinger."

 

It was a relief to discover the actual lyric, because I had no idea what the fuck "Williams and Zinger" might have meant.

[John Smith]

I can easily see how someone would misshis name. If they get into the "theme" of th song rather than the details. I hear details today in songs that years ago I had no clue were there because I was pickign up the mood/message of the song. It's how you hear it.

[dondoboy]

Maybe if, like I did for a while, someone thinks the lyric is "Williams and Zinger."

 

It was a relief to discover the actual lyric, because I had no idea what the fuck "Williams and Zinger" might have meant.

Same thing here. It took years.