Obama on Fiscal Responsibility

[MattZ]

if he packs his Treasury Department with Goldman alums and lobbyists, despite the fact that he explicitly promised to do otherwise.

 

They may be greedy bastards who missed this entire collapse. They may also be the best we've got. Taibbi is right that this is all incestuous but it is because, I hate to say it, finance is incestuous.

 

You can't pluck someone from the local coffee shop to run the treasury. There just isn't a huge pool of candidates to choose from. Most people don't know much about a CDO other than how to spell it. The best we've got just isn't all that impressive, and many (most?) of them are Goldman, Sachs alums. I don't think Obama has a choice.

[futureage1]

Actually, the bank bailout is working beautifully. It's right on target to break the back of the middle class once and for all, so that the elites can turn the American people into third world citizens. The banks did not miss a thing. Collapse was the goal. I realize it's fashionable among progressives to interpret virtually all current events in light of Naomi Klein's Shock Therapy: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism or hipsters like Taibbi. But the fit is almost uncanny. Everything that's happening is textbook Milton Friedman.

 

Very soon the UAW will be history; then the Teamsters will be targeted; finally the Longshoremen. In the meantime, our nation will have accrued trillions of dollars of debt thanks to the bailout. At that point, Wall Street will suddenly cease being a spoiled brat demanding to be serviced, to become the voice of doom demanding that America get its financial house in order. The government will comply by scrapping any and all remaining safety nets. Social Security - the ultimate goal of these economic machinations - will be turned over lock, stock and barrel to the "investors", or more specifically the FED. And, voila, yet another country ceases to exist as a sovereign nation to become a fiefdom of the corporate elite. The only thing that makes us imagine such a scenario is absurd is our uncanny belief that "it can't happen here." To which our President will reply "Yes it can!"

 

His commitment to restore Constitutional Government??????????

 

It may have been a commitment during the campaign, but it clearly isn't now. From defending unconstitutional wiretaps, to trying to sweep torture under the rug, to playing a shell game with Habeus Corpus between Gitmo and Bagram, to asserting an even HIGHER degree of Executive secrecy than Bush, Obama has continually betrayed those to whom he promised a return to Constitutional order and the end of Bush's Imperial Presidency.

 

Ann Coulter is also a constitutional lawyer. It doesn't mean squat. I can no longer support this President.

[MattZ]

Yes, yes. I know this is all probably some devious plan on Goldman's part to lull taxpayers into complacency before they take over the world at our expense, but still, this is relevant to our thread here (from the wsj):

 

NEW YORK -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Chief Financial Officer David Viniar said he believes that repaying the $10 billion the firm received from the U.S. government bailout is a "duty" now that the investment bank has reported strong quarterly results.

 

The company priced a $5 billion stock offering Tuesday to raise part of the money, and it will find other means to come up with the balance, Mr. Viniar said during a conference call with investors and analysts Tuesday morning. All Goldman needs is for the government to approve it becoming the first major bank to repay the loans extended to troubled banks last October, he said.

[Panther]

Why, oh why, will they just not legalize weed so they can tax the hell out of it? I have my theories on why this will never happen, but it is getting kind of absurd now.

 

 

Why was it made illegal in the first place? only completly fascist minds can possibly argue for that shit.

It wasnt a problem until it showed up on colledge campuses and started expanding the minds of the slave force.

 

who among us can tell GOD that weed is illegal?

[futureage1]

How to Puff Up Earnings, Goldman Sachs Style-

 

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/04/how-t...an-sachs-style/

 

"Leave it to the clever boys at Goldman Sachs to turn dross into gold: They have come up with a way to hide massive losses so clever, it requires special comment: The Orphan Month.

 

Yesterday, we noted that the bulk of their profits had come from AIG transfer payments

[rareair]

You did miss that. I don't like these policies and I will speak out against them if it's Bush or now Obama carrying them out. And for all the talk about Bush, I guess people are missing how many of his policies Obama is not only continuing but expanding, like the bailouts.

 

i missed your alternative to the bailouts.

[Panther]

i missed your alternative to the bailouts.

 

Thats a bullshit thing to say, and brilliant at the same time. its called PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION

 

"they" created this problem and knew what would happen we reacted "whats your alternative to the bailouts" and they gave us there grand (illusion) solution.

 

BAILOUTS WOOOOO WHO grand illusion thats a styx album right?

[futureage1]

Thats a bullshit thing to say, and brilliant at the same time. its called PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION

 

"they" created this problem and knew what would happen we reacted "whats your alternative to the bailouts" and they gave us there grand (illusion) solution.

 

BAILOUTS WOOOOO WHO grand illusion thats a styx album right?

 

Exactly. All one has to know is the FED invented derivatives and therefore manufactured the crisis. It's still amazing to me that people defend the bailouts on any level at this point. Obama's speech today was worthy of an Oscar. He's as big of a hoax of a progressive as Bush was a hoax of a conservative. Both of them bought and paid for, as well as brought to you by Wall St., to keep up the illusion that you still have a democratic govt.,you don't.

[futureage1]

i missed your alternative to the bailouts.

 

 

Repeal the Federal Reserve Act. Return to the Gold Standard and pay off our National Debt in about 5-10 yrs when we are not constantly paying down interest and no principle using Fed Reserve notes that are backed by nothing, except interest for each dollar the FED prints, and then says our country owes them. Funny, the FED's solution is always to print more money.

 

And if you don't know what any of that means and don't know that the Federal Reserve is a private bank and not a Govt. agency, then you should not be supporting the bailouts, without the basic knowledge and facts, of what got us here. I would also recommend not listening to any of the cable news stations for the answers either. You will just get more lies,bullshit and coverups.

 

Outlaw hedge funds and let banks fail and pay people their money out of the FDIC insurance money for their checking and savings accounts. Bond holders are out of luck since in a real free market when the business fails so does your investment. And in a real free market other banks who were not overextended will fill the void for the banks that failed and people would simply bank someplace else. The people who stand to lose the most are the people who got us into this mess and most would consider that justice since it is only lost pride, with the billions that they have robbed from the citizens of this country. They should be in jail, but these assholes can't even sail off into the sunset with their millions no they want EVERYTHING, which is why they need to be stopped and put in their place. Too bad our Govt. is nothing more than a middle man now for these crooks.

[MattZ]

For all the "let banks fail" and "we will never see this money paid back" chatter in here, I'd like to reiterate that, by not letting Goldman fail, we avoided a potential calamity and Goldman appears to be the first bank stepping forward to pay the Government back.

 

Now, we will see if the Government takes the money back (they may not), but Goldman is raising private capital to pay the public sector back. So yes, I understand that Goldman Sachs aren't exactly the good guys here, and this isn't exactly a feel good story, and this doesn't mean that anyone else will pay their loans back. And yes, I am aware of the AIG connections. But here's what it does mean. It's not as cut and dry as some people continue to insist that it is. Goldman appears ready to emerge, and pay back their IOU. Would we really be better off if we had just let them fail? Not so clear to me.

[rareair]

Would we really be better off if we had just let them fail? Not so clear to me.

 

that was really my point. the propaganda in this thread is reaching maximum capacity.

[Panther]

well reality is a fucked up thing.......... better off i guesse thats a realative term.... the bailouts delay the inevitable which is a broken system and unpayable debt, most buissness or economic students would probably laugh at me for saying that though.. debt lol thats how it all works

[Guest Jules]

at least Tim Horton's is still around.

[futureage1]

For all the "let banks fail" and "we will never see this money paid back" chatter in here, I'd like to reiterate that, by not letting Goldman fail, we avoided a potential calamity and Goldman appears to be the first bank stepping forward to pay the Government back.

 

Now, we will see if the Government takes the money back (they may not), but Goldman is raising private capital to pay the public sector back. So yes, I understand that Goldman Sachs aren't exactly the good guys here, and this isn't exactly a feel good story, and this doesn't mean that anyone else will pay their loans back. And yes, I am aware of the AIG connections. But here's what it does mean. It's not as cut and dry as some people continue to insist that it is. Goldman appears ready to emerge, and pay back their IOU. Would we really be better off if we had just let them fail? Not so clear to me.

 

Can you still not see we did not avoid anything? The dollar is now ruined. We are going to have hyperinflation to the point nobody can even comprehend it seems. When you are grocery shopping with a garbage sack filled with money to purchase bread, tell me what a calamity we avoided. So instead of letting a select few banks fail you find it better that the entire treasury is drained keeping a very few select banks afloat? It is very clear to everyone but you, congress and the Obama administration that we have been ripped off. Goldman wants to pay back TARP money? Too bad they never mention paying back all the money they funneled and stole from AIG's TARP funds. Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about and I find it both funny and sad that you feel the need to defend these thieves.

[futureage1]

that was really my point. the propaganda in this thread is reaching maximum capacity.

 

It's not propaganda it's the truth. Propaganda is you believing the bailouts are necessary and are designed to help the public.

[dondoboy]

Can you still not see we did not avoid anything? The dollar is now ruined. We are going to have hyperinflation to the point nobody can even comprehend it seems. When you are grocery shopping with a garbage sack filled with money to purchase bread, tell me what a calamity we avoided. So instead of letting a select few banks fail you find it better that the entire treasury is drained keeping a very few select banks afloat? It is very clear to everyone but you, congress and the Obama administration that we have been ripped off. Goldman wants to pay back TARP money? Too bad they never mention paying back all the money they funneled and stole from AIG's TARP funds. Seriously you have no idea what you are talking about and I find it both funny and sad that you feel the need to defend these thieves.

I just bought lunch with a couple of dollars. Same price as last year. When does this "the dollar is ruined" go into effect? 'Cause when it does, I'll need to find a new place for lunch.

[MattZ]

Can you still not see we did not avoid anything? The dollar is now ruined. We are going to have hyperinflation to the point nobody can even comprehend it seems.

 

Here is what we have avoided: the collapse of our financial system in general (for now), and the collapse of Goldman Sachs specifically. So right off the bat, you are wrong. And notwithstanding your claims, the dollar is not now ruined. Where is your evidence that it is ruined? Yes, it is in trouble, and yes, we have a long hard road ahead of us. But if the economy recovers (or starts to recover), the govt will have to fight inflation and pay down debt. Obama and Congress are trying. I can't fault them for trying.

 

Also, you seem to be shifting your arguments. Before you were complaining about how we were throwing money away and that the banks would never pay it back. Now Goldman offers to pay it back. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't admit that you were wrong in this instance.

 

Too bad they never mention paying back all the money they funneled and stole from AIG's TARP funds.

 

Your passion is clouding your judgment. They didn't steal anything from AIG. They bought insurance through AIG and the govt bailed out AIG to prevent a ripple effect. If I have insurance through AIG and I collect from them, am I stealing TARP funds too?

 

Seriously you have no idea what you are talking about and I find it both funny and sad that you feel the need to defend these thieves.

 

[caliber66]

When you are grocery shopping with a garbage sack filled with money to purchase bread, tell me what a calamity we avoided.

Really if it gets to this point, it seems to me that you ought to stop carrying cash and just use your ATM card.

[MattZ]

Really if it gets to this point, it seems to me that you ought to stop carrying cash and just use your ATM card.

 

debit card fees, dudebro

[ZenLunatic]

The government doesnt care about things that far into the future. They care about the next election.

 

This recession is nothing compared to what is to come.

[Guest Jules]

This recession is nothing compared to what is to come.

Which is...?

[caliber66]

debit card fees, dudebro

I don't pay fees to use my card at the store. Sounds like someone's bank needs a bailout...

[futureage1]

Here is what we have avoided: the collapse of our financial system in general (for now), and the collapse of Goldman Sachs specifically. So right off the bat, you are wrong. And notwithstanding your claims, the dollar is not now ruined. Where is your evidence that it is ruined? Yes, it is in trouble, and yes, we have a long hard road ahead of us. But if the economy recovers (or starts to recover), the govt will have to fight inflation and pay down debt. Obama and Congress are trying. I can't fault them for trying.

 

Also, you seem to be shifting your arguments. Before you were complaining about how we were throwing money away and that the banks would never pay it back. Now Goldman offers to pay it back. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't admit that you were wrong in this instance.

 

 

 

Your passion is clouding your judgment. They didn't steal anything from AIG. They bought insurance through AIG and the govt bailed out AIG to prevent a ripple effect. If I have insurance through AIG and I collect from them, am I stealing TARP funds too?

 

 

 

 

I'm not shifting any arguments. That is complete bullshit. Read my posts. It's safe to say I have been saying the same thing when it has been popular or not. You ignore all credible evidence to keep your mind made up that everything is great Wall St. is honest and that Goldman actually made a profit when it has been debunked how they didn't. I mean you quote the WSJ, a Rupert Murdoch publication, as legitimate. That's funny really it is. And I don't care if you have AIG insurance, but don't claim profits from insurance claims ala Goldman Sachs. Our economy is in free fall and there will be no recovery. And it's funny you are still under the delusion Obama is trying to save the economy rather than his true motives of ruining the dollar to introduce world currency. It's pretty obvious to most discerning people that is what the agenda is.

[ZenLunatic]

Which is...?

 

Extinction of the human race.

[Guest Jules]

cool

 

Our economy is in free fall and there will be no recovery.

I have it on good authority that this is untrue.