TCP Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Very interesting day. God, I love Canada Day.Montreal looks pretty good, as much as I don't like to admit it.Now, got the Sedins locked up, I would like 1 Slovak sniper, please!!!!I'm really happy for Ohlund, he obviously had no future in Vancouver (Edler = Ohlund but younger), good to see him get paid well. I am, a little, intrigued that he got signed to a 7 year deal 15 minutes after free agency opening..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 not sure what the Canadians will be like. Hal Gill, Gomez and Co. see,s like a soft bunch to me. Bruins need a D man ! got any ? Hossa ? well probably has 3 good years in him, 12 ? hope I get to see him play in 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 The 12 year contracts are never meant to be played out in full, especially with those Euros signing. It's just an irresponsible way to get by the cap for a time.Gaborik to NYR for five years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Well, he's only 30, so I'm sure he'll play at least 8 more years. I think it's structured to be front-loaded, but the overall hit to their cap # is $5m, which is the average yearly salary of his contract. It's a relative bargain for the Hawks. Now if they could only get rid of Campbell, who is making WAY too much, they might have money to re-sign both Kane and Toews, both of whom will be RFAs after next season. They have a lot of good young players who will be asking for big raises. GM (Talon) specifically mentioned Toews, Kane and Keith as players that will be paid. They still have room under the cap for this year, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Quiet day for Boston. We signed Begin (who I'm guessing will apologize to new teammate Savard about that whole 'broken back' thing a few years ago), re-signed Bitz and bought out Shaefer. Also dumped Stephane Yelle and Steve Montador. I hope we sign Kessel, but he has to be willing to take a less-than-market offer like Krecji did. Also P.J. Axelesson's been a Bruin since I've been a fan, so I'd like to see another year or two with him on the roster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 The 12 year contracts are never meant to be played out in full, especially with those Euros signing. It's just an irresponsible way to get by the cap for a time.Gaborik to NYR for five years.Why do you say 'irresponsible?' I think it's creative... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 I always think of those type of signings as "video game signings". Signing someone to a 12 year contract to get around the Cap is a move for XBox, not NHL. It does come across as immature, almost desperate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Immature and desperate? Why? Here's why I think it's smart. Hossa's salary is structured like so:1st 7 years: $7.9 milNext year: $4 milNext 2 years: $1 milLast 2 years: $750,000. So basically, the meat of the contract is for the 1st 7 years. If they had given him that 7 year contract, they'd be taking a $7.9m hit against the cap, instead of the $5.1 hit that he's taking. Hossa's happy, because all of the money is loaded towards the front of the contract, and he'll collect the bulk of it. The team's happy not only because of the salary cap #, but because if they decide to trade him, other teams will be able to afford him, unlike Heatley's current options. It's a win/win for both the team and the player. I would like to hear why you guys think it's irresponsible, immature, and/or desperate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Holy shit. The Rangers signed Brashear. Let the enforcing begin! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 To me, with the Cap shrinking next year, it's a quick fix. It works out great for Hossa, but as soon as his productivity slows down, there are a lot of question marks. Chicago is a great team again, with a young core. To devote that much money to Hossa is a gamble. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 glad we signed Recchi, even though he's 48 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
opium Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 When will we see a 50 years contract for 50m$? Just asking... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 anybody else starting to get withdrawal symptoms? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Walken, I know I am. The NHL has done a good job of making the off season fairly interesting. I only have a faint interest in the CFL and it looks like the Lions are in for a tough season which kills any interest I have. So that leaves just hockey for me. Only a few more weeks till training camps start. Well... like eight weeks... The front-loaded, long term contracts are irresponsible. They're a quick fix and very dangerous. Look at what happened to NYI and Alexei Yashin... 10 year contract, which they had to buy off and will be paying off for a long time. Very few players are great for an extended period of time. Let's look at Markus Naslund, Peter Forsberg, and Pavel Bure. All three of these players were the best in the game at one point or another and if there was a salary cap in each of their eras, they would have been given a long term contract for sure. Would you want any of those players now with a cap hit of 6+ million dollars? No. Naslund who hurt his wrist, got separated from his best friend, and lost the will to play and retired at 35 after a 6-year decline that started with 104 points and ended with 46? Forsberg who's played 9 NHL games in the past 2 seasons? Bure is a great example cause I think you can compare him a lot of Ovechkin. They both play very similarly... very physical, which caused Bure to have to leave the game after only 700 games?What a lot of people forget about these long term, front loaded contracts is the average is counted the entire time. So while the played is 28 and at the top of his game, sure, a 5.5 million dollar cap hit might be great, but what about when he's 36, not nearly the scorer he use to be but doesn't want to retire? Are you going to put him in the minors? Better hope you didn't give him a NTC or NMC, better hope he isn't a fan-favorite, better hope that UFAs don't want to avoid your team because of this. What if he's European and wants to go home? And worst yet, what if he gets injured at 29 and you're stuck with that cap hit for the next 12 years??????? What I worry about is the NHL changing the rules in the next CBA (next off season). If you've ever heard Bettman talk about the cap going down he'll say something to the degree "this is why we recommend against long term contracts"./end rant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Walken, I know I am. The NHL has done a good job of making the off season fairly interesting. I only have a faint interest in the CFL and it looks like the Lions are in for a tough season which kills any interest I have. So that leaves just hockey for me. Only a few more weeks till training camps start. Well... like eight weeks... The front-loaded, long term contracts are irresponsible. They're a quick fix and very dangerous. Look at what happened to NYI and Alexei Yashin... 10 year contract, which they had to buy off and will be paying off for a long time. Very few players are great for an extended period of time. Let's look at Markus Naslund, Peter Forsberg, and Pavel Bure. All three of these players were the best in the game at one point or another and if there was a salary cap in each of their eras, they would have been given a long term contract for sure. Would you want any of those players now with a cap hit of 6+ million dollars? No. Naslund who hurt his wrist, got separated from his best friend, and lost the will to play and retired at 35 after a 6-year decline that started with 104 points and ended with 46? Forsberg who's played 9 NHL games in the past 2 seasons? Bure is a great example cause I think you can compare him a lot of Ovechkin. They both play very similarly... very physical, which caused Bure to have to leave the game after only 700 games?What a lot of people forget about these long term, front loaded contracts is the average is counted the entire time. So while the played is 28 and at the top of his game, sure, a 5.5 million dollar cap hit might be great, but what about when he's 36, not nearly the scorer he use to be but doesn't want to retire? Are you going to put him in the minors? Better hope you didn't give him a NTC or NMC, better hope he isn't a fan-favorite, better hope that UFAs don't want to avoid your team because of this. What if he's European and wants to go home? And worst yet, what if he gets injured at 29 and you're stuck with that cap hit for the next 12 years??????? What I worry about is the NHL changing the rules in the next CBA (next off season). If you've ever heard Bettman talk about the cap going down he'll say something to the degree "this is why we recommend against long term contracts"./end rant OK - well, your first example: Yashin, wasn't a front-loaded contract, and it was made before the salary cap was put in place. His contract started and ended with $6.4m/season, with a bell curve in the middle. And your other three examples are all outliers. I could easily counter with three all-star players who have had long fruitful careers (Lidstrom, Jagr, Roy). All three could have been nabbed with longterm contracts - at a bargain, but those guys are outliers as well. Bure's contract was, as I assume all contracts are, insured. And to counter your negative what ifs, what if the Hawks win the Cup once, twice, three times or more in that period? What line do they have to cross to make this contract deemed successful? A career-ending injury isn't a cap hit, nor is it a cap hit when a player quits his team to play elsewhere. A long-term contract is risky to be sure - you never know how it will play out. All I'm saying is that it was smarter for the Hawks to sign Hossa with a front-loaded contract instead of a straight up 7 years @ $7.9mm. By signing him with 5 extra years at minimal salary, they're able to add another player over that same time period for $2.8m cap hit. If you're saying that ALL long-term contracts are irresponsible, that's another matter entirely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 OK - well, your first example: Yashin, wasn't a front-loaded contract, and it was made before the salary cap was put in place. His contract started and ended with $6.4m/season, with a bell curve in the middle. And your other three examples are all outliers. I could easily counter with three all-star players who have had long fruitful careers (Lidstrom, Jagr, Roy). All three could have been nabbed with longterm contracts - at a bargain, but those guys are outliers as well. Bure's contract was, as I assume all contracts are, insured. And to counter your negative what ifs, what if the Hawks win the Cup once, twice, three times or more in that period? What line do they have to cross to make this contract deemed successful? A career-ending injury isn't a cap hit, nor is it a cap hit when a player quits his team to play elsewhere. A long-term contract is risky to be sure - you never know how it will play out. All I'm saying is that it was smarter for the Hawks to sign Hossa with a front-loaded contract instead of a straight up 7 years @ $7.9mm. By signing him with 5 extra years at minimal salary, they're able to add another player over that same time period for $2.8m cap hit. If you're saying that ALL long-term contracts are irresponsible, that's another matter entirely.I know the Yashin contract wasn't front loaded and it was before the cap era but it's a good example of the dangers of any long term contract. Long term conracts might work out, yes, but maybe it won't. That's all my point was, it's very dangerous. You're mortgaging your future for a chance to win now... I just think there's better ways to go at it. Two things I'd like to note:1) Toronto tampered with the Sedins via Ron Wilson on a radio show. They're being investigated now. I'm curious about what will happen. This is a clear case of tampering. No member of your management/coaching can discuss players under contract with another team, never mind state that you're interested in them. The Blues got nailed for tampering and lost a 1st round draft pick, Wilson tampered with two players.... so two first round draft picks? I know it's a different situation but you'd be lying if you said Wilson's comments couldn't effect the negotiations. It'll be interesting to see if anything comes of this, though I have my doubts that it will, since we're talking about the Leafs.2) Joe Sakic is set to retire on Thursday. The greatest BC born player of all time. A true legend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lodestar Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 2) Joe Sakic is set to retire on Thursday. The greatest BC born player of all time. A true legend. Love Joe, but Steve Yzerman gets my vote here. As for the tampering claim, I'm sure Burke will find a way to come out unscathed. Though I wouldn't mind if he tossed Kaberle our way and called it even. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I know, nothing much will likely come of it but you can dream, can't you? I guarantee you if it was a team the NHL didn't favour, like Calgary, a few draft picks would go Vancouver's way... But since it's Toronto this will be dropped and forgotten about soon. But imagine a 2010 first round Toronto draft pick going to Vancouver??? That's a top-10 draft pick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I always liked Joe Sackshit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Oh you Wings fans!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Tallon cannedOuch! "Congratulations. We made the conference finals last year. Now, go get your fucking shine-box!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Wow. Guess we know who's really in charge in Chicago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Pfft that will teach him not to mail qualifying offers to players. No I'm kidding! How did Dale Tallon lose his job but Bob Gainey & Bryan Murray still have theirs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Havlat was a Tallon fan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Winter Classic at Fenway, I really hope I can get tickets. Hope everybody noticed my Avatar change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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