Wilco Worship

[Guest Speed Racer]

I didn't say church wasn't boring. Nor did I say church was "better" than a concert. I just said it was more sacred.

 

I have a hard time comparing a Wilco concert to church. For me it's apples and oranges. One is a time to kick back and have fun, the other is something I feel like I need to do and has different rewards.

 

Which is why you fall into the camp of people that does not think that Wilco, or any concert for that matter (if I may project) qualifies as a spiritual experience; a lot of people in congregations around you likely don't think that church qualifies as a spiritual experience.

 

Now that I've read the article, I suppose one of the things that bothers me about it is how the author superimposes Christian values and symbols (probably both the wrong words) onto Wilco; Wilco can qualify as either a spiritual OR religious experience, but to measure that S/R experience against Christian norms is like comparing apples and oranges. Granted, measuring Wilco against Christianity is exactly what the article is trying to do, it's just that to me that's a lot like saying, "Easter isn't at all like Ramadan because..." Well of course it's not!

 

How many church goers would skip a concert if it meant they had to miss one church service?

 

To correct your quote to read "go to a concert," millions? Literally, millions.

[So Long]

What a bizarre article.

[jff]

To correct your quote to read "go to a concert," millions? Literally, millions.

 

I should have said "How many church goers would skip a concert because going to the concert would cause them to miss church?" I believe the answer is virtually none.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I should have said "How many church goers would skip a concert because going to the concert would cause them to miss church?" I believe the answer is virtually none.

 

Wow. I'm, just, wow. REALLY? I think you're thinking more of the C&E variety - you HAVE to. You simply cannot think, in this world, that 'virtually none' of the people in this world who attend religious services would skip one to go to a secular concert. Is that what you're telling me? Wow.

[jff]

Wow. I'm, just, wow. REALLY? I think you're thinking more of the C&E variety - you HAVE to. You simply cannot think, in this world, that 'virtually none' of the people in this world who attend religious services would skip one to go to a secular concert. Is that what you're telling me? Wow.

 

Well, I'm really talking about Americans and not the entire world. I don't know what "the C&E variety" is, but I do think the vast majority of people who attend church in America would be more than willing to miss one church service to go to a concert.

[Guest Speed Racer]

So yes, I am looking for something. I'm not getting it at church. Not sure if I found it at a Wilco show, but that was pretty rapturous (spelled wrong?). Wilco makes me happy. Spreading the gospel of Wilco -- as in trying to turn on every one I can to the band makes me happy. Meeting other Wilco fans is cool. Being told that I'm a sinner and going to burn in hell does not. Being looked down upon by potential leaders of this country cause I'm not into their brand of distorted hate in the name of Jesus does not.

 

I think you really hit on something a lot of people get out of secular fan devotion - while many of us just can't 'get' how someone wouldn't like even a few Wilco songs, if not the whole catalog, we ulitmately understand that it comes down to a matter of taste. We, specifically, can be 'saved by rock and roll,' but that experience is intensely personal and individualistic. Among rock, science-fiction or whatever it is that you devote yourself to (and experience on a spiritual level), popular culture devotion only leads to salvation, never damnation.

[mfwahl]

Wow. I'm, just, wow. REALLY? I think you're thinking more of the C&E variety - you HAVE to. You simply cannot think, in this world, that 'virtually none' of the people in this world who attend religious services would skip one to go to a secular concert. Is that what you're telling me? Wow.

I think he's saying the opposite of what you think he is saying.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Well, I'm really talking about Americans and not the entire world.

 

Even there, I think you have to be really careful. Amurkuh has a lot of zeal, and very fundamentalist Christians have really entwined 'popular music' with the religious experience, such that the concert and the service can be indistinguishable; nevertheless, I doubt you'd find one among them that would opt out of a Sunday service to see The Newsboys.

 

I don't know what "the C&E variety" is, but I do think the vast majority of people who attend church in America would be more than willing to miss one church service to go to a concert.

 

"Christmas and Easter" Christians - those being the only two services they really make sure they hit. I think that, absolutely, of casual Christians and even church-goers who don't necessarily consider themselves Christians, they would absolutely miss church for a concert.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it ultimately comes down to where you have the spiritual experience - would you EVER skip a spiritual experience to go to a lousy _____? _____ can be whatever it is that doesn't make you feel the way you do when you're having the spiritual experience. Rare is the churchgoer who would opt out of a spiritual experience to sit 100 yards away from something they listen to on their commute; rare is the music fanatic who would yowl Martin Luther in a pair of khakis instead of SEEING WILCO BABY!!!

[jff]

I think he's saying the opposite of what you think he is saying.

 

All I'm saying is that church goers (people who typically go to church every week, or most every week, and identify themselves as members of the religious group named on the sign in front of their church, and on the envelope where they place their donation check) allow themselves to skip church once in a while, for any number of reasons. One of those reasons being to go to a concert. Another being to recover from a hangover which was installed before, during and after the concert.

 

Is that wrong?

[Guest Speed Racer]

All I'm saying is that church goers allow themselves to skip church once in a while, for any number of reasons.

 

Is that wrong?

 

That's correct. I took the phrase "regular church-goer" in your original post to read, "average person of the world who attends religious services" and not "average Joe-secular who drags his ass to church occasionally."

[jff]

That's correct. I took the phrase "regular church-goer" in your original post to read, "average person of the world who attends religious services" and not "average Joe-secular who drags his ass to church occasionally."

 

I guess i just don't think that most church goers feel that what happens in church is truly a spiritual or sacred experience. Maybe that's because I was raised catholic and there are a lot of people who sit in catholic churches every week who are just going through the motions, but self-identify as catholic.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I guess i just don't think that most church goers feel that what happens in church is truly a spiritual or sacred experience. Maybe that's because I was raised catholic and there are a lot of people who sit in catholic churches every week who are just going through the motions, but self-identify as catholic.

 

Well, I think that's the distinction between Catholic-as-religious and Catholic-as-sociocultural, which is a really profound difference. Even being someone who was raised Presbyterian, now living in Lutheran country, there are a lot of minute cultural differences between most of my friends and me that is a distinctly religion-as-sociocultural and not a Minnesota v. Chicago thing.

[awatt]

Hi. I wrote it. I used to be much more active here. I still love Wilco.

 

So long anonymity.

 

If you think this is weird, wait till you see my book which looks at music as well as film, violence, science, medicine, sex, celebrity, sports, and death, as sacred sources for religious cultural life and expressions.... With references to the band here and there (almost outed myself as awatt in the acknowledgments....).

 

Sorry about the "from the ashes" line. I regretted it as soon as I wrote it yet couldn't change for some reason.

 

Gary/awatt

[Wilco Worshipper]

Hi. I wrote it. I used to be much more active here. I still love Wilco.

 

So long anonymity.

 

If you think this is weird, wait till you see my book which looks at music as well as film, violence, science, medicine, sex, celebrity, sports, and death, as sacred sources for religious cultural life and expressions.... With references to the band here and there (almost outed myself as awatt in the acknowledgments....).

 

Sorry about the "from the ashes" line. I regretted it as soon as I wrote it yet couldn't change for some reason.

 

Gary/awatt

Gary,

 

I think it's great (the article/idea). I shared it with all my friends thru email, FB & MySpace last night in an effort to see if they would "get me". I'm adding your book to my Wish List!

 

~Ellen aka WW

[Wilco Worshipper]

P.S. When I joined the board two years (next Saturday), I chose my name just as a fluke (lack of creativity on my part). I think in the end I've grown into the name and I am VERY happy I chose it!!!

 

 

 

Self-fulfilling prophecy...

[Sir Stewart]

Wow, our own AWATT wrote it!

[mountain bed]

Well I'll be dogged! Good to see ya around these parts, Gary!

 

See you at the next webcast?

[Wendy]

Happy book release day!

 

[Gobias Industries]

Even there, I think you have to be really careful. Amurkuh has a lot of zeal, and very fundamentalist Christians have really entwined 'popular music' with the religious experience, such that the concert and the service can be indistinguishable; nevertheless, I doubt you'd find one among them that would opt out of a Sunday service to see The Newsboys.

 

Not to contribute anything particularly substantive, but I went to one of these things once (it was a campus movement-ish thing) and all I can say is that the music was fucking boring. When they talked about the stuff for real, it was interesting, but I haven't gone back because the music was basically unbearable in its boring-ness. I don't think all the kids looking like fools with their arms up embracing the "rapture" helped with the image either, but that's neither here nor there.

[bjorn_skurj]

Not to contribute anything particularly substantive, but I went to one of these things once (it was a campus movement-ish thing) and all I can say is that the music was fucking boring. When they talked about the stuff for real, it was interesting, but I haven't gone back because the music was basically unbearable in its boring-ness. I don't think all the kids looking like fools with their arms up embracing the "rapture" helped with the image either, but that's neither here nor there.

In my church, embracing the rapture will involve the following invocation:

 

Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's high

DJ's spinnin' are savin' my mind

Flash is fast, Flash is cool

Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do

And you don't stop, sure shot

Go out to the parking lot

And you get in your car and you drive real far

And you drive all night and then you see a light

And it comes right down and lands on the ground

And out comes a man from Mars

And you try to run but he's got a gun

And he shoots you dead and he eats your head

And then you're in the man from Mars

You go out at night, eatin' cars

You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too

Mercuries and Subarus

And you don't stop, you keep on eatin' cars

Then, when there's no more cars

You go out at night and eat up bars where the people meet

Face to face, dance cheek to cheek

One to one, man to man

Dance toe to toe

Don't move too slow, 'cause the man from Mars

Is through with cars, he's eatin' bars

Yeah, wall to wall, door to door, hall to hall

He's gonna eat 'em all

Rapture, be pure

Take a tour, through the sewer

Don't strain your brain, paint a train

You'll be singin' in the rain

I said don't stop, do punk rock

 

Well now you see what you wanna be

Just have your party on TV

'Cause the man from Mars won't eat up bars when the TV's on

And now he's gone back up to space

Where he won't have a hassle with the human race

And you hip-hop, and you don't stop

Just blast off, sure shot

'Cause the man from Mars stopped eatin' cars and eatin' bars

And now he only eats guitars, get up!