Guest Speed Racer Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Why are you so concerned with how other people decide to discipline their kids? Why are you so concerned with why I'm concerned about how other people discipline their kids? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I've reached my "I don't give a shit" phase of this topic. Thought you all should know.Seriously. I grew up fairly poor and lived in neighborhoods where child abuse was the norm. This story is shit and is just something the media knows the general public will raise a small fuss over. If they showed the real abuse - children used as ashtrays, bartered for a rock, etc. - people would turn that news off. (Kinda like the Sarah McLachlan commercial.) They're giving you what you are willing to handle. If you want to debate child abuse maybe you could start with the children who are afraid to go to sleep at night because they're wondering if tonight will be another one of those nights where their abuser(s) beat/rape/torture them - again. My sister works at a non-profit treatment center for abused children, most of whom lives are permanently fucked on levels we can't fathom. I wouldn't worry too much about this boy having to stick gum on his nose in front of the class. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Wouldn't you agree that teachable moments that end up in the back of a police cruiser belong to those old enough to, say, mow a lawn? Use a stove to cook? Don't need a step-up block to brush their teeth? Can cross the street without a guardian? Oh yeah, wait till the pyro starts playing with the gas stove before you have him arrested. Just out of curiosity, at what age do you think it's ok to tase and/or pepper spray a kid to teach him a lesson? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Why are you so concerned with why I'm concerned about how other people discipline their kids? I wouldn't say that I am concerned with it, but I do think it is interesting how you continue to insist how black and white this issue is, and yet, this thread pretty much proves it isn't. Different folks in here have different opinions, clearly. So, the thread almost by definition proves you wrong. Also, I learned the hard way recently (my son is 21 months old) how much easier it was to raise other people's kids before I had my own! This stuff isn't easy, and no one in here knows this kid better than his mother. Yes, this seems extreme. Yes, I am cynical. But until I know more, I remain on the fence. EDIT: just want to be clear - when I say "proves you wrong" above, I just mean it's not black and white. Of course you are entitled to your opinion that this is inappropriate. Your opinion can't be wrong. (Sorry if that was unclear ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Why are you so concerned with why I'm concerned about how other people discipline their kids?Cause it's kind of peculiar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 at what age do you think it's ok to tase and/or pepper spray a kid to teach him a lesson? Frankly, I don't think it's ever okay to harm *anyone* to "teach them a lesson". Deter them from a behavior? Probably when they're using a deadly weapon or substantial aggressive force to try to seriously harm someone. And no, I don't think a five yaer-old playing with a lighter constitutes that, unless he's playing with fire and a gasoline line, in which case I'm not sure pepper spray or a taser would do much of anything to make that situation less dangerous. I wouldn't say that I am concerned with it, but I do think it is interesting how you continue to insist how black and white this issue is, and yet, this thread pretty much proves it isn't. Different folks in here have different opinions, clearly. So, the thread almost by definition proves you wrong. No, that was clear to me. I mean, what you meant by "proves you wrong" and that different folks have different opinions. Really, honestly, all I'm trying to understand is how some people couldn't see it as a black and white issue. I respect all of your opinions and your right to have them, but no one has said anything that has made me think, "Oh, there's the context where it's appropriate!" I have never said or insinuated that parenting is easy, and I certainly don't think that parenting is easy, and I don't know why people would think that I think that (especially since I've said it once or twice in the thread). And as to why I'm "concerned," I mean, I'm kind of just discussing on a message board, aren't I? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Frankly, I don't think it's ever okay to harm *anyone* to "teach them a lesson". Deter them from a behavior? Probably when they're using a deadly weapon or substantial aggressive force to try to seriously harm someone. And no, I don't think a five yaer-old playing with a lighter constitutes that, unless he's playing with fire and a gasoline line, in which case I'm not sure pepper spray or a taser would do much of anything to make that situation less dangerous. Who said you could take my sarcasm and turn it into serious discussion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Won't happen again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 How about this? AUTISM GROUPS CALL FOR RESIGNATION OF DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND SCHOOL PRINCIPAL Towaco, NJ, (May 20, 2010) - DAD, the world’s largest Non-Profit school curriculum and advocacy group for Autistic and disabled children, and other National and local Autism organizations will meet and hold a Press Conference on Friday May, 21, 2010, 11:00AM at the Quality Inn Meadowlands, 10 Polito Avenue , Lyndhurst, NJ, to call for the Resignation of Atlanta District Attorney Paul Howard, and School Principal Karen Cox, for arresting Shane Finn, a 14 Year Old Autistic Boy who drew a stick figure in his special needs class. Shane Finn is a 14 year old Autistic boy from Atlanta, Georgia. Shane is in the 8th Grade and functions on a 3rd Grade level. He has an IQ of 75. Shane drew a one-inch stick figure holding a gun pointed at the teacher. Shane was arrested on Felony charges for drawing the picture. The District Attorney refuses to drop the charges, and is brining Shane to trial for a Felony Conviction. “These charges are absolutely cruel and malicious,” Says DAD Program President/CEO. “Furthermore, Atlanta District Attorney Paul Howard is a complete disgrace to law enforcement, and to the badge that so many wonderful law enforcement agents wear so proudly. Ridgeview Charter School Principal Karen Cox is also completely worthless, and brings dishonor and humiliation to all teachers, and to our great education system as a whole,” Gesualdo adds. Gesualdo and leaders of other National and local Autism organizations will call for the immediate resignation of District Attorney Howard and Principal Cox, at the press conference this Friday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 If anyone's hankering to point the finger of hypocrisy, I'll go on record as saying that while the first news story to me is absolutely, 100% black and white, this second story reminds me how much I hate zero tolerance policies in schools. Also, how was it clear that this one-inch stick figure was pointing at the teacher? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 How about this? AUTISM GROUPS CALL FOR RESIGNATION OF DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND SCHOOL PRINCIPAL Towaco, NJ, (May 20, 2010) - DAD, the world’s largest Non-Profit school curriculum and advocacy group for Autistic and disabled children, and other National and local Autism organizations will meet and hold a Press Conference on Friday May, 21, 2010, 11:00AM at the Quality Inn Meadowlands, 10 Polito Avenue , Lyndhurst, NJ, to call for the Resignation of Atlanta District Attorney Paul Howard, and School Principal Karen Cox, for arresting Shane Finn, a 14 Year Old Autistic Boy who drew a stick figure in his special needs class. Shane Finn is a 14 year old Autistic boy from Atlanta, Georgia. Shane is in the 8th Grade and functions on a 3rd Grade level. He has an IQ of 75. Shane drew a one-inch stick figure holding a gun pointed at the teacher. Shane was arrested on Felony charges for drawing the picture. The District Attorney refuses to drop the charges, and is brining Shane to trial for a Felony Conviction. “These charges are absolutely cruel and malicious,” Says DAD Program President/CEO. “Furthermore, Atlanta District Attorney Paul Howard is a complete disgrace to law enforcement, and to the badge that so many wonderful law enforcement agents wear so proudly. Ridgeview Charter School Principal Karen Cox is also completely worthless, and brings dishonor and humiliation to all teachers, and to our great education system as a whole,” Gesualdo adds. Gesualdo and leaders of other National and local Autism organizations will call for the immediate resignation of District Attorney Howard and Principal Cox, at the press conference this Friday. The Principal and the DA should both be fired immediately for showing such piss poor judgment - honest to christ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I agree that zero tolerance policies sometimes have unfortunate results - as it may be the case there. But again, this is a situation where we don't know the whole story. Maybe this kid (in addition to be autistic) has a history of violence or lashing out at his teacher? Not that I'm an expert on the condition, but I'd imagine that even an autistic 14 yr old is capable of being a dangerous threat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Shane Finn is a 14 year old Autistic boy from Atlanta, Georgia. Shane is in the 8th Grade and functions on a 3rd Grade level. He has an IQ of 75. Shane drew a one-inch stick figure holding a gun pointed at the teacher. Shane was arrested on Felony charges for drawing the picture. The District Attorney refuses to drop the charges, and is brining Shane to trial for a Felony Conviction. And unless we're unclear, brining a person of any age is never acceptable, for any reason. I recall my elementary school principal discussing zero-tolerance policies with my 4th grade class, after a recent school shooting in Kentucky. Someone asked, "What if I bring my Cub Scouts knife to school accidentally because it was in my bag from my den meeting the night before?" "Then you will be expelled." "What if I go to a teacher and tell them first?" "Then you will be expelled." "What if I don't tell anyone and no one finds out?" "Then we will find out, and you will be expelled." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 How about this? AUTISM GROUPS CALL FOR RESIGNATION OF DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND SCHOOL PRINCIPAL Towaco, NJ, (May 20, 2010) - DAD, the world’s largest Non-Profit school curriculum and advocacy group for Autistic and disabled children, and other National and local Autism organizations will meet and hold a Press Conference on Friday May, 21, 2010, 11:00AM at the Quality Inn Meadowlands, 10 Polito Avenue , Lyndhurst, NJ, to call for the Resignation of Atlanta District Attorney Paul Howard, and School Principal Karen Cox, for arresting Shane Finn, a 14 Year Old Autistic Boy who drew a stick figure in his special needs class. Shane Finn is a 14 year old Autistic boy from Atlanta, Georgia. Shane is in the 8th Grade and functions on a 3rd Grade level. He has an IQ of 75. Shane drew a one-inch stick figure holding a gun pointed at the teacher. Shane was arrested on Felony charges for drawing the picture. The District Attorney refuses to drop the charges, and is brining Shane to trial for a Felony Conviction. “These charges are absolutely cruel and malicious,” Says DAD Program President/CEO. “Furthermore, Atlanta District Attorney Paul Howard is a complete disgrace to law enforcement, and to the badge that so many wonderful law enforcement agents wear so proudly. Ridgeview Charter School Principal Karen Cox is also completely worthless, and brings dishonor and humiliation to all teachers, and to our great education system as a whole,” Gesualdo adds. Gesualdo and leaders of other National and local Autism organizations will call for the immediate resignation of District Attorney Howard and Principal Cox, at the press conference this Friday. it's not very well-written Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 I've seen the drawing in question (it was all over Fox News when I was at my parents' house last weekend), and both figures are labeled, and the gun, in the hand of the figure with the kid's name, is very clearly pointed at the figure labeled with the teacher's name. There is no question what the kid meant to draw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Maybe they should just let it go until he acts on his thoughts.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 I'm not saying the actions are the best and there shouldn't be a sweeping law/rule that applies, but people always bitch when "signs" go undetected. The same people likely bitch when they think punishment/action is too harsh when stifling those same potential "signs." If Karen Cox (the principal) does nothing about this and brushes it aside and the kid does act out his fantasy where does that leave Karen Cox and the teacher? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 I've had students make guns with their hands/fingers and point them at me when they thought I couldn't see and have to immediately assess the seriousness/intent. I see nothing wrong with reporting (and letting the chips fall where they may) a kid drawing pictures of shooting his teacher. Even at a 3rd grade comprehension level. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Here is a link with the picture (embedded in the video). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Yeah, pretty explicit. Felony charges may be a little harsh, though. Some form of action with serious consequences is fine, imo, autistic or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 it's not very well-writtenI have often drawn stick figures holding guns pointed at people who write crappy press releases. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Here is a link with the picture (embedded in the video). Despite his IQ and Autism, he knows that Xs for eyes means you're dead. He also did a good job expressing the anger of the shooter just by drawing a V shape over the eyes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Long ago, my sister came home from kindergarten class and asked my father: "What does 'Fuck Mrs. Bowman' mean?" I wonder if the kid who scrawled that on the wall would be prosecuted today... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Long ago, my sister came home from kindergarten class and asked my father: "What does 'Fuck Mrs. Bowman' mean?" I wonder if the kid who scrawled that on the wall would be prosecuted today...I doubt it. You don't see a distinction between drawing a picture of killing a teacher and a written expletive directed toward the teacher? I'm not sure that long ago there was as much of a problem with school-related violence/killings, either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 "make love to Mrs. Bowman" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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