How not to subdue a f*&^(ing CHILD

[Good Old Neon]

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/253272/21/Eight-year-old-pepper-spayed-by-police-near-Denver

[Winston Legthigh]

"I kind of deserved it," Aidan conceded to "Today."

[Good Old Neon]

I’m not quite sure an 8 year old is well enough developed, mentally and/or emotionally, to make that sort of judgment call – that’s where, one hopes, a reasonable, responsible adult steps in. The day I, as an adult (nevermind a police officer), cannot handle a stick wielding 8 year old without resorting to the use of a potentially deadly device, is the day I throw myself off a fucking bridge.

[Winston Legthigh]

Meh. They should have gone to the source and pepper-sprayed the ineffective mom as well.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Meh. They should have gone to the source and pepper-sprayed the ineffective mom as well.

 

Yes, because every time a kid has behavioral issues it's the fault of the parents.

 

How is pepper-spray a "potentially-deadly device"?

[Winston Legthigh]

Yes, because every time a kid has behavioral issues it's the fault of the parents.

 

How is pepper-spray a "potentially-deadly device"?

Nice leap.

 

I wasn't making generalizations. I think THAT SPECIFIC MOM should be pepper-sprayed. She's weak.

[Good Old Neon]

Yes, because every time a kid has behavioral issues it's the fault of the parents.

 

How is pepper-spray a "potentially-deadly device"?

 

Pepper spray has been found to be a potential contributor to death in several instances – though the evidence is admittedly sort of dubious.

 

With that said, I’m not sure how many tests have been conducted to determine whether it’s safe to use on children – people tend to frown upon using kids as guinea pigs for those types of experiments.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Weak? Talk about a leap - how'd you get that from the story?

[Winston Legthigh]

Weak? Talk about a leap - how'd you get that from the story?

From the video of course. As a modern American, I make snap judgments from sound-bite news.

[Guest Speed Racer]

It's like that Tootsie Pop commercial: how many posts in a thread until someone uses their anus instead of their mouth to talk?

 

One...

 

Two...

 

Four.

 

[bleedorange]

I don't understand. Why was the child f*&^(ing?

[Doug C]

I can see both sides. I wasn't there. I can't determine how the child was acting, how those actions affected the thought process of the police, etc. If they assumed that the safest way to end the situation was with pepper spray, I can respect that. On the surface, "Oh my God! The cops pepper sprayed an 8 year old!!", sounds brutal and ill-conceived but I give the police a wide berth, discretion-wise. I can't imagine the split-second decision-making required in matters of potential physical harm, not to mention life and death. It is reasonable to determine that the police followed procedure and did what was considered to be best. That being said, it is also possible that it was a complete overreaction. But as I wasn't the officer involved, I can't say.

[jff]

Tranquilizer dart might've been a better option.

[u2roolz]

What happened was pretty horrible, but it makes you wonder what would have happened if a parent did that to their child. How different would the punishment be for the adult?

 

Here are some fairly recent examples of child abuse in many shapes and forms across the country.

 

First, I was shocked to read the following about corporal punishment.

 

"The St. Louis Times says corporal punishment is still allowed in about 20 states, many of them in the south. States began to get rid of the practice as the threat of lawsuits increased and research questioned how effective corporal punishment was.

 

The report also mentions how the only Catholic high school in New Orleans recently banned corporal punishment, only to see alumni, the school administration and even current students lobby to bring it back. They argue that paddling has helped the school build character and reach high graduation rates."

 

Really?! That seems like a joke or the continuation of violence.

 

A bizarre case of teacher on student cyber bullying.

 

"The mother of 7-year-old Ukailya Lofton from Chicago has accused her daughter's teacher of taking a cell phone picture of her daughter's hair--in order to post it on Facebook. It seems she thought the hair was somewhat amusing. As the story was told to ABC7News Chicago, the mother, Lucinda Williams, said that her daughter wanted to have hair with Jolly Rancher candies hanging from her braids for Overton Elementary School's Picture Day. But on that day, she says a computer teacher took a photograph of her daughter's hair and posted it on Facebook.

"She took a picture of me and then she said my boyfriend can't believe this," little Ukailya told ABC News.

 

When she heard about this, Williams says she went to the teacher's Facebook page and reportedly copied some of the comments on the picture of her daughter.

Among them, allegedly, was: "If you are going to make your child look ridiculous, the least you can do is have them matching." Another comment allegedly declared that writer's contact lens popped out when she saw the picture.

The Chicago public schools district issued a statement that read: "The district is currently investigating the matter to determine if any policies have been violated. If policies have in fact been violated, the district will move on disciplinary action."

Williams says she met with the school principal and the teacher, who allegedly said that she had removed the page but equally allegedly refused to apologize to the child.

And now, the word "allegedly" may be put to the test. Williams reportedly says she is planning a lawsuit.

Soon, perhaps, every school will have its own Facebook monitor."

 

The principal won't apologize to the parent or the child? Do we really need a cyber monitor to patrol every social media site for students and now teachers too? The obvious foolishness of posting something to Facebook and having it found is pretty bittersweet. It makes you wonder how many teachers go home and laugh at their students' differences. Quite sad.

 

An old school way to "discipline" (or so I've been told by the older generations):

 

"A Florida teacher has landed in hot water after silencing a noisy student by placing tape over her mouth. "She asked me to stop talking, and then a couple minutes went by, and I started to talk again, and she came to me and put it on my mouth," 13-year-old Jazlyn Freel told WSVN-TV. "I had to cough, so I took the first piece off, so she went into her desk, and she took another piece out, and she put it on my mouth again. The middle school teacher in Miramar, Fla. also taped shut the mouth of another student, Freel said.

 

After class, Freel and her New Renaissance Middle School classmate complained to the school's administrators and the teacher was reassigned. Freel's mother, Leah, said she was furious and wanted an apology. "I hope that this doesn't happen to any other children," she said. "It wasn't a really good experience, and I hope that it doesn't happen to anyone else." "

 

I really find it odd the blur between child abuse and discipline and teacher and parent. When they mention that this teacher was reassigned, were they really? Isn't that enough to not teach children anymore? Are those the desperate measures that teachers need to make to set an example to gain control of the classroom?

 

And now the worst:

 

"A high school football coach beat a student so severely with a "canoe paddle" that the wood board cracked and had to be taped so the "licking" could resume, a Dallas school district report said.

The Lincoln High School student suffered severe bruising and welts to his lower back, upper thighs and buttocks and was referred to a doctor for treatment, according to the report obtained by The Dallas Morning News.

 

"The report, unfortunately, speaks for itself and is, to say the least, disturbing," Dallas schools spokesman Jon Dahlander said in Thursday's newspaper. Paddling is legal in Texas but prohibited in Dallas public schools. No criminal charges have been filed and school district police suspended their investigation because of a lack of evidence in the 2007 case.

The student received up to 21 strikes from then head football coach Jerry Sands after being removed from the team. Sands decided the student would have to endure the paddling to return, according the report.

 

In an affidavit, Sands wrote that he wanted to help the student "make it in life." "It was never my intent to hurt (the student). If anything, I was trying to help him," he wrote.

The beating was detailed in an affidavit by coach Tyson Garner, who witnessed the incident, sent the student to the nurse's office and reported it to a child abuse hot line. He and another coach informed principal Earl Jones in May 2007.

 

Jones said he gave Sands a verbal reprimand. After an anonymous letter told school staff of the paddling, Jones issued a written reprimand backdated to April 2007, according to the report. In a statement, Jones said he was unaware of the severity and never considered notifying authorities because the student agreed to the punishment and didn't consider it abuse.

Jones was given a 20-day suspension and will be reassigned to another campus. Sands has been on paid administrative leave since September and refused to comment to the newspaper.

"

 

So let me get this straight, if I were to do this to my future child I'd probably wind up behind bars on several counts of child abuse? This guy gets paid administrative leave and only a 20 day suspension. Plus, his mindset was that he wanted to help the student "make it in life". Really!? Wacking a kid with a paddle 20 times is going to make him the next successful business person?

 

And the worst thing is that student didn't consider it abuse and let him do it in the first place.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing: it's not like the kid got paddled for getting 5 Fs. Nope. He was paddled for being taken off of the football team. I guess it shows some school's priorities.

 

(The part of Sparky Speaks will be played by u2roolz )

[bleedorange]

When I was in elementary school there was paddling. I definitely feared the wrath of the paddle. I remember having conversations with friends about the type of paddle used, how many times we would get hit if we got into trouble, etc. I think I remember one person actually being punished that way. Didn't seem so bad then, but I think it made more kids behave.

 

In middle school, I had a history teacher that would put a dirty sock on the corner of a desk of someone who wouldn't stop talking. I don't remember anyone actually having to put it in his or her mouth, but the threat seemed to be enough. She would also tie students' shoelaces to the leg of a desk if they kept getting up.

 

I don't see a problem with the tape incident above.

 

EDIT: Oh, that history teacher would also force a student to hold her hand all the way to lunch for misbehaving in some way. I actually had to do that one time. It was pretty funny and embarrassing.

[Good Old Neon]

Hitting/spanking/paddling a child, to me, is a sign of an adult’s inability to control themselves and/or a particular situation. I expect children to behave irrationally – as an adult, I feel it is my responsibility to react rationally when a child cannot. Striking a child is, in my opinion, a sign of parental/adult/authority figure/etc failure.

[jff]

When I was in elementary school there was paddling.

 

Me too. I got it once in fourth grade. I can't remember what kind of trouble I was causing, but I vividly remember my teacher telling me to "go sit on the bench." Everyone in the school knew that meant paddle-time.

[Winston Legthigh]

Hitting/spanking/paddling a child, to me, is a sign of an adult’s inability to control themselves and/or a particular situation. I expect children to behave irrationally – as an adult, I feel it is my responsibility to react rationally when a child cannot. Striking a child is, in my opinion, a sign of parental/adult/authority figure/etc failure.

Does putting your hands on a child count as hitting/spanking/paddling? What would your Plan A have been for the kid that was sprayed?

[Moss]

I wouldn't say you should never use paper spray on a kid. But in this case the officer obviously over reacted (as they have been known to do). Seriously? You can't disarm an 8 year old with a stick? Call the school bully over, he could do it.

[Doug C]

Let's say that talking the child down was proving ineffective. The chance of the child stabbing the police or someone else was increasing. He needed to be neutralized. The police decide to physically intervene. The child resists. He screams, kicks and hits. The officers realize that they need to be more forceful. The child inadvertently is bruised, cut or gets a dislocated or broken limb. The public outcry would be huge.

 

It seems prudent to use pepper spray. It's purpose is to safely subdue a violent person. I am a parent and grandparent but I honestly don't understand all the hubbub regarding this situation.

[Moss]

Or you could take his stick away.

[Doug C]

Or you could take his stick away.

It might not be that simple. Trying to remove his stick could go awry and it would have nothing to do with the police officers being wussies or unable to disarm an 8 year old. A physical altercation is always an unknown. Pepper spray is less so. It is so easy for us to say it would have been so simple to do "X" but the reality is that only the officers were there. An investigation may determine that they acted prudently. Or it may not.

[Winston Legthigh]

Or you could take his stick away.

Like Doug C has alluded to, are you ready for the consequences if you end up breaking the kid's arm?

[u2roolz]

Does putting your hands on a child count as hitting/spanking/paddling? What would your Plan A have been for the kid that was sprayed?

 

Here's how it might seem to some parents: When I hit my child, I am disciplining them. When I see someone else do the same thing, they are abusing them. Likewise, in my eyes any physical form of discipline is a form of abuse. The intent may be to discipline the child, but the action is the same as just abusing them. Although, from the child's point of view they may realize it or not that they are being disciplined.

 

I don't know. I know of some young parents who will try and talk it out with their 3 year old and they end up acting like little terrors. You really can't verbally rationalize with a 3 year old, but I can understand the social stigma of the thin line between abuse & discipline. Then you can get into the technicality of the impact of the hit and whether it's alright if it's a slight wack vs. a harder one and where you hit the child.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I say, Good job, officer whatever-your-name-is. That kid sounds like a future criminal. Hopefully, he has learned a valuable lesson.

 

Kids today are totally out of control, largely as a result of parents being unwilling or unable to truly comprehend their responsibility to be parents. Kids need to know that adults are in charge, not them. In the past ten years, I can't count how many times I have had to move to my left or right, while walking through a store, to avoid running down some stupid kid. When I was a kid, if an adult was heading my way, I got the fuck out of his way! If a police officer asked me to hand over a weapon, there would have been no discussion, no tantrum...I would have handed it the hell over.

 

In most cases, I blame the parents. They think every little thing their precious brat does is cute, and their idea of discipline is some bullshit timeout. If your three-year-old tries to be your boss, you give 'em a good smack on the ass. Corporal punishment, used sparingly and wisely, is the foundation of a civilized society...hence, many of our children today act like little terrors...they think they are untouchable.