Wall Street Protests

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

A scathing critique of his point that he doesn't want cops beating and pepper spraying unarmed civilians.

 

Wasn't my critique. Just thought it was a bit interesting. The jar heads do take those things seriously

[caliber66]

What, use of force against unarmed protestors?

[Moss]

It's sad that legitimate anger and protest has become such a focus of derision anymore. People are dismissed as hippies or people too lazy to work for their money or any number of other things, as if there was actually a level playing field for all. The fact that wall street sold worthless investments to the masses, then took taxpayer money from those same people because they were too big to fail, then proceeded to rake in additional obscene profits and not really change how they operate. And not a single person really paid for this completely illegal activity. I have no real hope these protests will change anything but I certainly understand the anger.

[Hixter]

The fact that wall street sold worthless investments to the masses

It's not quite that simple. Thousands (perhaps millions) of Americans willingly participated in -- and profited from -- the boom that preceded the bust. Anyone who sold a home for a profit (or bought one in hopes of profiting), went into foreclosure because they were upside down or watched as their 401k blossomed was a co-conspirator with the banks and Wall Street. When home prices were going up 5% a month you were taking a big risk if you bought, and made big profits if you sold; that's where a lot of the "missing" money went.

 

For every Wall Street banker who made a $50 million bonus there are a thousand ex-Californians who moved here to Texas and paid cash for their homes after cashing out of the overpriced California real estate market. Good for them, but their actions were not without consequences.

[Magnetized]

I honestly haven't been following the detailed coverage of the Wall Street protests, but I pretty much agree with Moss and others--the anger and frustration is totally understandable, even if there isn't a unified, coherent mission statement or a clear path forward. It actually reminds me of last year's Rally to Restore Sanity in DC. There we were--hundreds of thousands of people, all gathered together--for what, exactly? Not everybody had the same reasons for being there, and there wasn't any real followup to capitalize on whatever seed of momentum might have been sown, but there was still some overarching sense of community and commonality.

 

I think it's way too much to expect that there will be a concise message from these protests, and I doubt that they will continue too much longer in this form. But I am hopeful that some of the energy and commitment that people have shown, just in showing up, will translate over to some kind of mobilizing force in the 2012 elections. Not that I think reelecting Obama is going to be a panacea, but not relecting him could be disastrous.

 

And no, I don't think corporations or capitalism are inherently evil. I think they are morally neutral, but the fundamental purpose of a corporation is to make money, and capitalism is basically Darwinism. The driving imperatives of both of these systems can be motivational at their best. They are dangerous, though, when unchecked by socially responsible policies and effective regulations, and that's exactly what I think the greedy, self-interested social and economic conservatives want to get rid of.

 

So carry on, Occupy Wall Street!

[-seven]

In Less Than A Minute Alan Grayson Explains Occupy Wall Street To The 1 Percent

 

 

http://youtu.be/AcjeUFodYfQ

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

What, use of force against unarmed protestors?

 

Probably not (afte allr, Marines aren't shrinking violets).

 

Uniform protocol. I thought it interesting that the Marine cited didn't comment about the guy being at the event. He was troubled by the apparent lack of respect for the traditions and protocols that they shared.

[Moss]

 

For every Wall Street banker who made a $50 million bonus there are a thousand ex-Californians who moved here to Texas and paid cash for their homes after cashing out of the overpriced California real estate market. Good for them, but their actions were not without consequences.

 

I don't see how this even kind of equates to a bank knowingly selling toxic assets as Class AAA low risk investments. Oh, and now the banks are forging mortgage papers so they can more easily foreclose on people. Of course these were not high risk loans for the bank, because no matter what happened, they were just going to bundle them up and sell them off to other willing dupes for even more profit. Knowing that no matter what, they would be bailed out if the whole thing fell apart.

[caliber66]

 

Probably not (afte allr, Marines aren't shrinking violets).

 

Uniform protocol. I thought it interesting that the Marine cited didn't comment about the guy being at the event. He was troubled by the apparent lack of respect for the traditions and protocols that they shared.

Shrinking violets or not, I would hope that the men and women charged with defending the people of America would be more concerned about unnecessary use of force against the same people it is their sworn duty to protect than about some guy wearing his uniform improperly.

 

I have been deeply immersed in military culture my entire life. I understand that marines (sailors, soldiers, airmen, coasties) are largely conservative politically and probably don't have much sympathy for the Occupy Wall Street movement. It disappoints me that any one of them would excuse bad behavior by others who are charged with protecting the same citizens.

[Hixter]

 

I don't see how this even kind of equates to a bank knowingly selling toxic assets as Class AAA low risk investments. Oh, and now the banks are forging mortgage papers so they can more easily foreclose on people. Of course these were not high risk loans for the bank, because no matter what happened, they were just going to bundle them up and sell them off to other willing dupes for even more profit. Knowing that no matter what, they would be bailed out if the whole thing fell apart.

"The banks" aren't faceless entities that are out to suck up every last penny; they have shareholders who expect them to turn a profit and and most of that profit ended in in the 401ks and stock portfolios of average citizens, many of whom ran out and spent beyond their means because they thought the bubble would never burst and they were absolutely certain that their overpriced homes would continue to appreciate.

 

I have a good friend who bought a ridiculously overpriced house at the peak of the market and then stopped paying his mortgage more than a year ago because he was hideously under water. He's saved about $50,000 in mortgage payments over that period of time and is going to walk away from his stupid investment with a wad of cash in his pocket while the bank eats a couple hundred grand. To top it off, he rails against Wall Street at every opportunity and bristles when I remind him that he is part of the problem.

[Magnetized]

"The banks" aren't faceless entities that are out to suck up every last penny; they have shareholders who expect them to turn a profit and and most of that profit ended in in the 401ks and stock portfolios of average citizens, many of whom ran out and spent beyond their means because they thought the bubble would never burst and they were absolutely certain that their overpriced homes would continue to appreciate.

 

I have a good friend who bought a ridiculously overpriced house at the peak of the market and then stopped paying his mortgage more than a year ago because he was hideously under water. He's saved about $50,000 in mortgage payments over that period of time and is going to walk away from his stupid investment with a wad of cash in his pocket while the bank eats a couple hundred grand. To top it off, he rails against Wall Street at every opportunity and bristles when I remind him that he is part of the problem.

OK, he's part of the problem. As human beings, we're weak, we'll look for a loophole or something advantageous to us personally every time. That's why we need a representative democracy and regulation, and we need a functioning government and elected leaders, to keep our baser instincts in check.

[Magnetized]

Really? Wow. Some of the comments were getting pretty heated though. It sort of proved Tweedy's point about the internet as he was quoted in Magnet Magazine:

 

“‘Look at this beautiful kitten.’ ‘Fuck you, that kitten’s a socialist.’ ‘You’re a fag.’ Basically, that’s the crux of all Internet discussion.”

I was actually pretty shocked that the whole discussion just completely disappeared from Facebook, but Jeff's original statement is still on the News tab of wilcoworld.net.

[dark]

as a conservative I wouldnt have bailed out anyone .... so on that level maybe I agree with some of the protesters ....there needed to be conseqences as far as the banks, auto industry, individuals doing stupid risky things but no one likes consequences to their actions. My gut still tells me many of these folks are just looking to blame the fat cats, politicians etc for their lot in life ...I just think that anyone with that attitude isnt helping themselves

[anthony]

Some interesting facts and figures

[Moss]

My gut still tells me many of these folks are just looking to blame the fat cats, politicians etc for their lot in life ...I just think that anyone with that attitude isnt helping themselves

 

I think it's more that people just want an even playing field, the game is so rigged right now in the favor of the 1%. Most people get arrested for doing illegal things.

[lost highway]

He's saved about $50,000 in mortgage payments over that period of time and is going to walk away from his stupid investment with a wad of cash in his pocket while the bank eats a couple hundred grand. To top it off, he rails against Wall Street at every opportunity and bristles when I remind him that he is part of the problem.

 

I bet his credit is awesome too.

[Basil II]

In hard times...... previiously you used to be rewarded high intrest rates as A SAVER.........not so any more.......early 80's i was earning 12-15 % saving rate on money in basic CD's

 

-Robert