General Political Thread

[LouieB]

And just how many of those are committed by members of the dreaded NRA?

Who cares? That really doesn't matter does it? The NRA wants everyone to have all the guns they can get no matter what. So get used to it.

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

The NRA wants everyone to have all the guns they can get no matter what.

Surely you know that that isn't even close to the truth.

 

Here's another example of what the government does with its lists of legal gun owners:

 

A man with a concealed carry permit is pulled over, searched and harassed in Maryland just because he owns a handgun ... that he left back in Florida.

[Atticus]

From West Wing, Season Two, episode "In This White House":

 

 

 

Sam: But for a brilliant surgical team and two centimeters of a miracle, this guy's dead right now. From bullets fired from a gun bought legally. They bought guns, they loaded 'em, they drove from Wheeling to Rosslyn, and until they pulled the trigger they had yet to commit a crime. I am so off the charts tired of the gun lobby tossing around words like personal freedom and nobody calling 'em on it. It's not about personal freedom. And it certainly has nothing to do with public safety. It's just that some people like guns.

 

Ainsley: Yes, they do. But do you know what's even more insidious than that? Your gun control policy doesn't have anything to do with public safety, and it's certainly not about personal freedom. It's about that you don't like the people who do like guns. You don't like the people. Think about that the next time you make a joke about the South.

 

this is why (to me) the gun debate will never yield any positive results in the US: the opponents don't just dislike each other's stance on guns, they dislike each other.

[Sir Stewart]

Surely you know that that isn't even close to the truth.

 

Here's another example of what the government does with its lists of legal gun owners:

 

A man with a concealed carry permit is pulled over, searched and harassed in Maryland just because he owns a handgun ... that he left back in Florida.

 

Why the hell did his wife not just say "If he says it's home in the safe, that's where it is."

[Hixter]

Why the hell did his wife not just say "If he says it's home in the safe, that's where it is."

She probably never heard her husband's conversation with the cop. Officers are trained to separate suspects before questioning them, in order to see if their stories match or differ.

[Sir Stewart]

Ah, I glossed over the part where he was taken out of the car. Fucked up.

[Hixter]

Fucked up.

Agreed. It's like an out of state cop pulling over a car with Colorado plates because weed is legal in their home state. (But I won't be surprised if it happens.)

[John Smith]

Agreed. It's like an out of state cop pulling over a car with Colorado plates because weed is legal in their home state. (But I won't be surprised if it happens.)

Or like a black man being pulled over in the suburbs, or stop and frisk...

[Hixter]

Or like a black man being pulled over in the suburbs, or stop and frisk...

That's an different discussion entirely, but it would be a fitting comparison if the cops pulled over African Americans or stopped and frisked people after they'd already ascertained their identities and been informed that the subjects had no criminal histories. The Maryland cops in the story I linked to already knew (via government databases) who the man they were following was and that he had a clean record.

[John Smith]

Of course it's different it's always different. In the case I put out there they have no reason what so ever to pull the person over, but that is acceptable.

[KevinG]

Surely you know that that isn't even close to the truth.

 

Here's another example of what the government does with its lists of legal gun owners:

 

A man with a concealed carry permit is pulled over, searched and harassed in Maryland ju,st because he owns a handgun ... that he left back in Florida.

 

What an extremely biased and poorly written article.  By the account given what the Police officer did was wrong and more than likely illegal.  But we only have one account of what happened here and this account was written by a person who clearly has a pro gun agenda.  But yet it is read like Maryland police officers are pulling over every single person with FLA license plate and throwing them in jail cause they might have a gun.      

 

You don't know why he was pulled over, though the article infers that it was because he was from FLA and the Maryland is out to get all gun owners.  Simply not true and the author knows it to be untrue, but that does not fit the narrative.  If it were true there would be several more accounts of things like this.  

 

In the past when it comes to outrage over things the Right wing media jumps all over something before the it is fully verified and then get burned by it later (see nearly every ACA horror story).  

 

I am sure there is more to this story, but before I pass judgement and cry in my soup about the plight of gun owners, I will wait for the whole story.  

[lost highway]

Surely you know that that isn't even close to the truth.

 

Here's another example of what the government does with its lists of legal gun owners:

 

A man with a concealed carry permit is pulled over, searched and harassed in Maryland just because he owns a handgun ... that he left back in Florida.

 

Yes.  This story shows the general consensus of U.S. government on the issue of firearms.  The actions of this police officer are a perfect projection of how lawmakers at a state and federal level treat the issue.  The gun owner is clearly a symbol of all free Americans who legally owns a gun and face constant targeting and discrimination.  I pray for him.

[Hixter]

Of course it's different it's always different. In the case I put out there they have no reason what so ever to pull the person over, but that is acceptable.

I don't think you'll find many people who think it's acceptable to pull people over "for no reason whatsoever." Fourth Amendment and all.

[John Smith]

I don't think you'll find many people who think it's acceptable to pull people over "for no reason whatsoever." Fourth Amendment and all.

Other than the police, the mayor of New York, the Supreme Court, the defenders of stop and frisk on fox. Of course a reason can always be found to pull someone over and toss their vehicle or search them.

[Hixter]

But yet it is read like Maryland police officers are pulling over every single person with FLA license plate and throwing them in jail cause they might have a gun.

I can't understand how you arrived at that after reading the story.

 

the article infers that it was because he was from FLA and the Maryland is out to get all gun owners.  

 Ditto.

[John Smith]

Why is Maryland out to get all gun owners? And if that is the case shouldn't there be a whole spate of similar stories? Lawsuits etc... The BS war on Christmas gets more play than this story and if true in fact as well as spirit this story is much bigger.

[KevinG]

I can't understand how you arrived at that after reading the story.

 

 Ditto.

 

From the article:

 

The state of Florida might have codified his Second Amendment rights, but he knew he’d be passing through states where recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions affirming the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms have been met by hostile legislatures and local officials.

“I know the laws and I know the rules,” Filippidis says. There are, after all, ways gun owners can travel legally with firearms through hostile states."

 

These are the author's words, not fact but opinion.  He infers that any state or community with a gun law is going be hostile to gun owners.  Maybe what is going to happen John is gonna happen to them.  When I search for more sources on the article the Right Wing media was even more explicit on this.

 

The actions by this one police officer does not represent the actions of anyone but the actions of the police officer.  But the author shoves a wedge between gun owners and non gun owners.  That is the purpose of the article, not to report anything, but vilify communities that have passed anti-gun legislation.  

 

I am not saying what was done by the police officer was right, what I am saying is there is probably more to this story and the story pushes an agenda of victimhood rather than explaining the facts.  

 

It is too bad you can't see the bias in this, or at least admit honestly how one sided this article really is.  You who jump on anyone who slightly misquotes you or misinterprets one of your views.      

[bleedorange]

From the article:

 

The state of Florida might have codified his Second Amendment rights, but he knew he’d be passing through states where recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions affirming the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms have been met by hostile legislatures and local officials.

“I know the laws and I know the rules,” Filippidis says. There are, after all, ways gun owners can travel legally with firearms through hostile states."

 

These are the author's words, not fact but opinion.  He infers that any state or community with a gun law is going be hostile to gun owners.  Maybe what is going to happen John is gonna happen to them.  When I search for more sources on the article the Right Wing media was even more explicit on this.

 

The actions by this one police officer does not represent the actions of anyone but the actions of the police officer.  But the author shoves a wedge between gun owners and non gun owners.  That is the purpose of the article, not to report anything, but vilify communities that have passed anti-gun legislation.  

 

I am not saying what was done by the police officer was right, what I am saying is there is probably more to this story and the story pushes an agenda of victimhood rather than explaining the facts.  

 

It is too bad you can't see the bias in this, or at least admit honestly how one sided this article really is.  You who jump on anyone who slightly misquotes you or misinterprets one of your views.      

 

It's a column, though. Not a news story.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

He wants to put me in jail. For no reason. He wants to take my wife and children away and put me in jail. In America, how does such a thing happen?"

 

Boy, has this old boy been sheltered, or what? He thinks the guy wants to take his wife and children away and put him in jail? Where does he get all that? He was given a written warning, not even a ticket. Talk about a crybaby.

 

I have had more than one real cop get all up in my business before, and I know it's no fun. One time, it was a speeding ticket. I got out of the car to object, after he had already started walking back to his patrol car. I did not realize how jumpy cops can be until he started pulling his weapon out and screaming, Get the fuck off my highway! Get the fuck back in your car!

 

The second time, I had an officer walk right into my residence, weapon drawn, because an alarm in the building had gone off, unbeknownst to me. After I got off the phone call I was on, I went outside, where there were two officers. I said something about entering my domicile without a warrant and with a weapon drawn (I was no expert on probable cause), and one of the officers got right up in my face and said, in a very aggressive and taunting manner, You want to get in my face? Huh? You want to get in my face?

 

So, wow. Newsflash. Some law enforcement people can be assholes. Talk about a non-story. And everyone on FB is suggesting legal action. Yeah, great, another useless lawsuit. 

[KevinG]

It's a column, though. Not a news story.

Hixter presented it as an example of what is happening to gun owners. But it a biased half story.

[Guest Jules]

I said something about entering my domicile without a warrant and with a weapon drawn (I was no expert on probable cause),

 

Too bad you're not gonna see this, but I'd like to know if you really said "domicile".  If so, props.

[lost highway]

Yes.  This story shows the general consensus of U.S. government on the issue of firearms.  The actions of this police officer are a perfect projection of how lawmakers at a state and federal level treat the issue.  The gun owner is clearly a symbol of all free Americans who legally owns a gun and face constant targeting and discrimination.  I pray for him.

 

My 'sarcasm lock' was on.  I'm not sure if it was clear.

[caliber66]

The columnist should bone up on his geography. The Fort McHenry Tunnel is in Baltimore, which is 70 miles into Maryland traveling south on 95.

[Hixter]

From the article:

 

The state of Florida might have codified his Second Amendment rights, but he knew he’d be passing through states where recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions affirming the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms have been met by hostile legislatures and local officials.

“I know the laws and I know the rules,” Filippidis says. There are, after all, ways gun owners can travel legally with firearms through hostile states."

I don't see how merely referring to states as "hostile" to concealed carry would lead you to say that the article "read like Maryland police officers are pulling over every single person with FLA license plate and throwing them in jail cause they might have a gun" or "Maryland is out to get all gun owners."

 

Guess who can get a Maryland concealed carry license with ease? Cops and former cops. "Regular" people are required to show police reports of documented threats, assaults or robberies to even be considered for a permit. There are only 14,000 people with permits among 6 million residents. Florida has 1.1 million among 19 million residents. (The firearm murder rate in Maryland is 30% higher than Florida.)

 

Also, Maryland doesn't honor the permits issued by any other state. Florida, however, honors the permits of 30 or 40 other states. Reciprocity is important.

 

He infers that any state or community with a gun law is going be hostile to gun owners.

No he doesn't. (All states have gun laws, by the way.)

 

He thinks the guy wants to take his wife and children away and put him in jail? Where does he get all that? 

The cops expected to find a handgun in his vehicle. Had they done so, he would have been taken away from his family and put in jail.

 

Hixter presented it as an example of what is happening to gun owners.

No, I presented it as a story of how the government can use those "harmless, common sense" registries that gun control activists advocate, to identify and harass gun owners who haven't broken any laws.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

The cops expected to find a handgun in his vehicle. Had they done so, he would have been taken away from his family and put in jail.

 

I know, it was just kind of funny how melodramatic the guy was about it, after the fact. All he got was a warning, but he's talking in this awed way, like, "How could this happen in America?" Uh, trying driving while black sometime, buddy.

 

Thing is, I can understand how the officer (who was, admittedly, an asshole) was somewhat suspicious. The wife really didn't help when she said she didn't know where the gun was. And it was a fairly good possibility that the guy was a dangerous gun owner. People from Florida have a history of "standing their ground" and shooting folks who are only armed with Skittles or popcorn.