General Political Thread

[Hixter]

t seems to me that Form 4473 effectively covers anyone who abuses the face-to-face allowance:

[caliber66]

Right, so a person who doesn't sell firearms as a business is not required to conduct a background check and is allowed to sell his gun to whomever he wants. I have a problem with that.

[Winston Legthigh]

You'd think that a private sale would have to be documented and registered, like a car sale. Not that difficult.

[caliber66]

Can't create a registry. First step towards confiscation. Because, you know, Hitler.

[ih8music]

Can't create a registry. First step towards confiscation. Because, you know, Hitler.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

You'd think that a private sale would have to be documented and registered, like a car sale. Not that difficult.

Exactly. Sure, a car can be a deadly weapon, but its primary purpose is as a mode of transportation. Yet if I want to sell mine, I have to go through that whole registration paper trail, as does the buyer.

Whereas the primary purpose of a gun is...oh yeah, protection, that's right. Like, say, a knife, or mace. Right?

[Hixter]

Can't create a registry. First step towards confiscation. Because, you know, Hitler.

Because Australia, if that makes any difference. Not to mention that there has been quite a bit of talk about confiscation from the anti-gun side in the United States.

Whereas the primary purpose of a gun is...oh yeah, protection, that's right. Like, say, a knife, or mace. Right?

Right. Also add in sporting and hunting.

[JUDE]

The funny thing is I’m not even opposed that much to a UBC law. I guess being in Minnesota I have had to show my Permit to Carry (which required an extensive background check) for every firearm I have ever purchased, Including face to face private party sales. I have found that gun owners like to know who is buying their firearms, the only thing I didn’t have to do is file a 4473 or an NICS call, but as I said before, it would be moot anyway with the CC.  For as rampant as these undocumented sales seem to be, I would think that in the last 20+ years I have been shooting and purchasing firearms, I would have had at least a few occasions to meet someone in a back alley and buy something cool with no questions asked, but no dice in my case.

 

If people really just wanted a UBC to make sure that all sales of firearms are made to responsible owners and not criminals then they should be contacting their respective representatives and demand a bill that only addresses the UBC issue, nothing else. Don’t let Senator Feinstein attach her AWB 2013, don’t put in a bunch of crap, just do the UBC.

[lost highway]

The missing piece of this argument is one side says any measures to control guns can not eliminate gun violence.  Who said anything about eliminating it? 

 

The goal is to reduce it.

[Hixter]

Don’t let Senator Feinstein attach her AWB 2013, don’t put in a bunch of crap, just do the UBC.

The anti-gun knuckleheads that represent us are, in most part, anti-gun enough to want to disarm Americans to the fullest extent allowable.

 

It would have been easy to ban the ridiculously over-sized and unreliable aftermarket magazines that no reasonable gun owner would tend to use: Glock mags that extend 8 inches below the bottom of the pistol grip and 100-round drums for ARs. Our representatives could have claimed a bit of a victory, but instead they got greedy and decided that even the standard magazines were too large.

[Hixter]

The missing piece of this argument is one side says any measures to control guns can not eliminate gun violence.  Who said anything about eliminating it? 

 

The goal is to reduce it.

This person says that it won't even reduce it by any appreciable amount. Even Senator Feinstein admitted that background checks would not have prevented the tragedy in Sandy Hook.

[caliber66]

Because Australia, if that makes any difference. Not to mention that there has been quite a bit of talk about confiscation from the anti-gun side in the United States.

Has there been any serious talk about confiscation from anyone who has any ability to actually make it happen? If a law is advanced advocating for confiscation of guns, do you honestly believe that it would have any hope of even getting out of Committee?

[lost highway]

This person says that it won't even reduce it by any appreciable amount. Even Senator Feinstein admitted that background checks would not have prevented the tragedy in Sandy Hook.

 

Sandy Hook is a huge piece of the narrative, and a moderate addition to the statistics.  Firearm policy is about the big statistical picture.

 

Background checks are part of the narrative, but not the bulk of what could be done with firearm policy in our country.

 

Gun owners seem to really get off on how a law wouldn't matter in some particular instance.  It's as if to say all of the people in the car crash were ignoring the speed limit so we should have none.

[Hixter]

Gun owners seem to really get off on how a law wouldn't matter in some particular instance.  It's as if to say all of the people in the car crash were ignoring the speed limit so we should have none.

No, it's as if to say that we already have laws against speeding that people are ignoring, so what good are additional laws that make speeding in a blue car even more illegal?

[Hixter]

New Jersey governor Christie wants to strengthen his state's already strict gun control laws and limit access to violent video games. The Republican has been pretty tight with President Obama lately -- so much so that he's basing his legislation on 'Hope.'

 

“It’s hard for me to sit here today and say, ‘If all these things got imposed we’d see an ‘X’ percentage drop in gun violence in this state.’ I don’t know,” said Christie. “Bad people are going to do bad things and so, would greater penalties deter people? You hope they do.”

The governor doesn't seem very confident in his proposed laws ...

[lost highway]

Because Australia, if that makes any difference.

 

It does make a difference.  Australia is a safer free nation.  They've done quite well under their ban.

[LouieB]

Australia isn't the US of A.  They don't have the 2nd amendment so their government can take their guns and run rough shod over their rights to kill the shit out of each other. 

 

LouieB

[Tweedling]

How does one "kill the shit out of each other"?

[Winston Legthigh]

How does one "kill the shit out of each other"?

Faulty question. It takes two to tango.

[LouieB]

You are right, we don't have the right to shoot each other (and often ourselves) we just do it anyway. And I am sure it has nothing to do with the number of guns we have, we just like to do it.

 

LouieB

[Tweedling]

I do like Australia's immigration policies.

[KevinG]

Regardless of how you feel about gun control to not vote for the measure because you didn't want to seem like you were helping the President is a pretty shitty thing to do.  Vote for a measure or don't because of merits of the law, but vote out shear party politics, that is inexcusable.  

 

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/05/01/18001650-toomeys-candor-sheds-light-on-post-policy-party?lite 

 

The disfunction we have in our political system is so great it is really sad.  Truly incredibly sad.  There is no governing body in US that is looking out for the people of US, just the pure party politics and who suffers?  Yeah we all do.  Super good job US government!  Super good job media!  Super good job partisan hacks (oh and the irony of me posting an article from the left wing Maddow is not lost on me).  Yeah for us all.

 

Also on the gun control thing, this Onion article pretty much sums up how I feel.  http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-won,32106/

[LouieB]

The Daily Show did a brilliant job last week on how the political right doesn't really care about any of the other parts of the Bill of Rights; only the Second Amendment is sacred. Someone can find the clip, I don't have time.

 

I don't know why you are still surprised by any of this.  The dysfunction is so deep we don't see a resolution to it for many years or until the Republicans get control of the White House again, which could take a few years if Rand Paul and Ted Cruz decide they want to be President.  Or maybe Chris Christie will be elected and then something will happen. I don't know.  Despite all his desire to try and bring everyone to the table (and in spite of the chagrin of the left)  Obama is not going to be able to do it.  It sure isn't for lack of trying. 

 

I don't even know why we still talk about this stuff here. It is pretty pointless when the political right blames two lone wolf terrorists on Obama, but refuses to admit that under Bush's watch nearly 3000 people died when the signs were clear that bin Laden was after us.  Civil and sensible discourse is no longer even possible at this point. 

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

the political right blames two lone wolf terrorists on Obama, but refuses to admit that under Bush's watch nearly 3000 people died when the signs were clear that bin Laden was after us. 

I have not heard, nor read,  a single person -- right or left -- say such a thing. 

[Tweedling]

The Daily Show did a brilliant job last week on how the political right doesn't really care about any of the other parts of the Bill of Rights; only the Second Amendment is sacred. Someone can find the clip, I don't have time.

 

I don't know why you are still surprised by any of this.  The dysfunction is so deep we don't see a resolution to it for many years or until the Republicans get control of the White House again, which could take a few years if Rand Paul and Ted Cruz decide they want to be President.  Or maybe Chris Christie will be elected and then something will happen. I don't know.  Despite all his desire to try and bring everyone to the table (and in spite of the chagrin of the left)  Obama is not going to be able to do it.  It sure isn't for lack of trying. 

 

I don't even know why we still talk about this stuff here. It is pretty pointless when the political right blames two lone wolf terrorists on Obama, but refuses to admit that under Bush's watch nearly 3000 people died when the signs were clear that bin Laden was after us.  Civil and sensible discourse is no longer even possible at this point. 

 

LouieB

I like how you've come to the conclusion that these were lone wolf terrorists. You should call up the FBI and let them knw you've figured it all out. I think one thing we can asses so far from the bombings is a problem with the political refuge we give to some people.

 

Now, are you saying 9-11 was Bush's fault?