Lammycat

Players who weren't uber-stars have already suffered the consequences of getting caught. No matter how you slice it, if you get caught doing something illegal/banned then there is fallout. It's not exclusive to baseball. I have little empathy for a player who was racking up big money and big stats under false pretenses and then gets caught in the act. Tough shit. You and other apologists want to sweep the entire era under the rug, continue to turn a blind eye to a massive problem in the sport, and give every player a Mulligan when in reality, not every player chose the tainted path. It's a

So we want to protect the guys actually caught cheating and slander the ones who haven't been? Nice. And yes. Tossing a spitball and getting caught is punishable in the proper way as opposed to enhancing your body to become an uber-star and dominating over your competition. The "crime" fits the punishment.

How about five independent sources. Will you be swayed then? Good lord. The burden of proof is on me? The 103 remaining players on the "anonymous" report does not come close to every player cheating. The consequences are that a players reputation is tarnished because they went about their career in an unsavory manner. If that means not getting into the HoF, so be it. Deal with the fall out from your decisions. There is no prescription for Primobolan (one of the drugs that A-Rod was busted with). It's an illegal and banned by MLB drug. Testosterone comes with a prescription (the other

Plenty of legitimate players, as far as we know.

Speculation? Hear say? What do you mean "we will never know?" We know. Evidence. It's not head in the sand. It's not speculation. It's fact. Whether it's good or bad for the sport is secondary to the point that player X decided that he would strive to be above the game. If player X gets caught going above the game through illegal and banned means, player X faces the consequences. I guess another way to look at it is to continue to turn a blind eye at the open wound. What good does that do?

Don't forget to factor in costs for a lengthy "Notes and Errata" piece to be tattooed on your thigh explaining the sentence....

I'm not getting "Houses of the Holy" on some lists. It's got an infectiously romping beat. The drumming alone does it for me. "Dead Horse"is a top G'nR tune for me, too.

Cheers, CoF.... :badger :badger :badger

I don't think it's fair to write off a player's whole career who has been caught using banned/illegal substances, either. However, the tainted image and the baggage that follows (HoF candidacy jeopardized for those with an otherwise legitimate shot at it) are part of the consequences. It's also difficult to gauge how well they would have been without the usage and it muddies their career from being looked at objectively, imo.

The moral stance, if in fact it's taken that way, is due to the fact that not only were/are steroids illegal (whereas smoking and drinking are legal) but they were banned substances per MLB rules (whereas smoking and drinking are not). That's the simplified perspective in my eyes.

"Day of the Locusts" is up in my top level of Dylan favorites and "If Dogs Run Free" is nothing short of a hoot. To each his own and all.... I love "Houses of the Holy" and "Fool in the Rain," too.... eek.

A few that stand out: Swing Auditorium 2-26 Cornell 5-8 Buffalo 5-9 Fox Theatre 5-19 Winterland 3-20 Winterland 6-9 Winterland 12-29 Winterland NYE Binghamton 11-6 Ill. 10-29 Lakeland, FLA 5-21 Hartford 5-28 Pretty much the entire spring run fits the bill....

Greg Anderson will always be my favorite from that era.

And would you be lying and bitching about how unfair you're being treated if it was proven that you broke laws/MLB rules? Just because a player had a good chance to get away with cheating at the time dose not excuse the fact that they cheated. Contrition and even acceptance has been shown to players who have merely come clean and copped to it. It's almost a non-issue for those players (Petite, Giambi, etc.). What rankles me is the inability to 'fess up and the indignant claim that they are untouchable/innocent/are above the game by players like Clemens and Bonds. Tainted era or not, cop to

I still believe that exonerating all players from this era is a slap in the face to those players who played by the rules, regardless if the majority or minority abused the rules.

Good points, bob. I didn't just pin it on ego and records, though. The records/numbers translate to a spot on a roster/paycheck/economics and I have recognized that. Ultimately, though, it's a personal decision. Getting busted for cheating/breaking laws and policy falls on the individual in the end.

I agree and that really is disturbing. The whole thing is a clusterfuck and unfortunately many careers will now be questioned over this. Again, though: it was personal decisions that got players in this jam. That's life.

Wow. This is mind-numbingly revealing of the entire era of usage and a lot of fan reaction to it. Do you honestly think that most players took steroids? I don't think that the majority of under-the-radar players did. It was the upper echelon guys, for the most part, who were vying for records, ego, and contracts.

Horseshit. There was a rule in place. Some people ignored it. Some people got caught ignoring it and now they need to face the penalty. MLB is certainly culpable to a degree. Yes, they were lax and looked away. However, it was/is still a personal decision to take HGH/PEDs. Nobody forced folks to break laws/MLB rules. Suck it up if you get nailed for it (is my take) and stop blaming the environment or whatever. If the BBWA doesn't look fondly on steroid users than so be it. MLB didn't create this. It's not a mess that "they" made. They are guilty of idly and passively allowing it to transpire

Seems like all arguments about these uber-players go out the window. I'm really tired of hearing that everybody was juicing when, in fact, not everybody was. It's an insult to players who didn't hit milestones or big contracts while playing within the rules of the game and the law. The sad part is that the majority of these guys would have been just as good had they maintained some integrity.

The show is fantastic through and through, imo. It's hype is equal to it's hype. True that the availability and quality contribute to it's legendary status but that doesn't diminish it's solidness to me. Take other shows from that period and it holds it's weight.

re: Reading /Writing. I tell my students (and live by it myself): read to write and write to read. Can't really have one without the other....

^ It's o.k. because "everybody" did it. "You'll have to talk to the Union."

Just keep listening until you hit the stuff that resonates.....It shouldn't take too long, actually. Assuming you're human.