Tweedy on Paste List

[Synthesizer Patel]

Led Zepplin? What in the hell did they ever write? They stole everything they ever did and didn't even bother to credit the original songwriter. I grew up loving Zepplin, but I've only recently come to terms with the fact that they're worst than second-rate hacks. Thieves. Plain and simple.

 

Well if that's the case then have a read of this and tell me what you think about Dylan being top of the list.

[BolivarBaLues]

elaborate with specifics?

 

 

Sure, my original post was a bit hyperbolic. But everytime I discover the origins of yet another Zep ripoff, it pisses me off that they screwed so many musicians out of their deserved royalties and that I spent so much time listening to these guys when I was younger. It also makes me appreciate the moments even more when they were totally original and awesome, like the poppier stuff on Houses of The Holy, side two of Physical Graffiti and Presence.

 

And for specifics, well here's some of the most specific examples of theivery (cases where the original composer was not credited): http://www.warr.org/zep.html

 

 

"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."

"Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.

"Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).

"Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."

"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."

"Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).

"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."

"How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."

"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).

"The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.

"Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.

"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.

"Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.

"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.

"White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."

"Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

 

I will add that "Whole Lotta Love" more closely emulates the Small Faces' version of this song, some 3-4 years prior to Zeppelin II.

 

And just for fun, here's a short sample (529KB) ofBert Jansch's version of "Black Water Side," which Page appropriates for "Black Mountain Side." Other acoustic Page instrumentals flagrantly ape John Fahey's style.

[Synthesizer Patel]

Blackwater Side & She Moves Through The Fair are just traditional folk songs. Bert Jansch & Davey Graham didn't write them. As for the blues ones, those people have/had copyright on them, but that certainly doesn't really mean to say they wrote them (a bit like a lot of the Carter Family songs, they were just the first to copyright them). The fact that Led Zeppelin always made their own arrangements certainly makes the issue a bit more of a legal issue more than an artistic one in my eyes anyway.

[loraaw]

Lists seem like an easy way for a magazine to fill most of an edition without doing a whole lot of reporting (although it does require a lot of numbers gathering and research). It seems a bit cheap of Paste, which is often above such things, to jump on the list bandwagon.

 

However, I think both lists - the one from readers AND the one from musicians/journalists - stay pretty true to the Paste readership. Jeff's up top because Paste caters to listeners, like us, who listen to artists who have a solid foot in the past (with influences like Dylan) but are definately looking toward the future.

 

As silly as lists are, I think that an artist should be flattered to be on this one. The voters in the musicians/journalists panel ranged from Solomon Burke (who I bet threw Jeff a vote!) to Cameron Crowe. There were also music writers from Pitchfork and the LA Times. A nice little sampling that isn't exactly going to give you Harris Poll "here's what the nation thinks" results, but rather "here's what Paste-like folks think" results. How many modern bands are really writing songs anymore? How many who are still putting out quality songwriting that offers something different every time have a solid back catalog of more than a decade? Not that many.

 

And hey, let's not forget Jeff was one of the voters in the Rolling Stone Top 100 of All Time List a year or so back, so he must not hate lists too much.

 

I think my point is, lists are cool as long as I agree with them. :-)

 

-Laura

 

P.S. I was just at Borders and the old issue of Paste (Flaming Lips) is still on the shelf at my branch. I also couldn't find a link to the whole list on the Paste Web site.

[explodo]

P.S. I was just at Borders and the old issue of Paste (Flaming Lips) is still on the shelf at my branch. I also couldn't find a link to the whole list on the Paste Web site.

Issue is on news stands June 1st. It's only out to subscriber's right now.

[Willkoman]

Issue is on news stands June 1st. It's only out to subscriber's right now.

I read it today at Borders. BTW I was picking up Matthew Pearl's new book. A historical novel about the mysterious death of Edgar Allan Poe.

[awatt]

These lists are bullshit, but even so I'm utterly surprised at how high Tweedy is ranked considering radio never, or rarely, plays any of his songs!! Look at the company he keeps--many with top ten radio hits through the years. These are often more popularity contests than really distinctions based on merits.

 

Think of his evolution as a songwriter.....from "I must be high, to say goodbye, bye, bye, bye" to "My sleeves have come unstitched, from climbing your tree."

 

If this was a ranking of which songwriter has grown the most as a lyricist, then I would rank Tweedy in the top 5, or really top 3.

 

Get ready for this: I think Tweedy is the heir to John Lennon in terms of his development, evolution as an artist over the years.

 

Am I right?

 

[myboyblue]

I got this in the mail yesterday and it's actually pretty good. Probably the most shocking was Bill Mallonee (Vigilantes of Love) at #65. I agree he's a great songwriter but he had to be one of the more obscure acts on the list.

[Dreamin']

I'm not sure what hippies put Joni Mitchell so damn high on the list. What the hell has she done in the last 2 decades?

Discography

 

Don't be dissing Joni. She's not just that barefoot hippie chick from 1968 any more than Dylan is just that guy who wrote "Blowin' in the Wind."

[myboyblue]

Discography

 

Don't be dissing Joni. She's not just that barefoot hippie chick from 1968 any more than Dylan is just that guy who wrote "Blowin' in the Wind."

 

Not dissing so much as surprised. I'm also surprised that she has made so much music in the last decade. I honestly haven't heard anything from her in the last 10 + years.

[Dreamin']

Unfortunately, women seem to have a much shorter shelf life commercially. As you can see from the Paste list, it's still a boy's club... and quite a few of those guys haven't done all that much in the last decade or so.

 

Joni Mitchell isn't modest (I'm sure she would put herself in the top 5, if not higher! ) and she speaks her mind without apology. I've always loved the really bitchy interview she did for W a few years ago, when she claimed to be "quitting the music business." I think she belongs up there with the greats. (Jeff too!)

[Edie]

I saw an "American Masters" with Joni (though she is Canadian!) recently that was really really really good. While she is now more focused on painting and her art (and her long lost daughter) and her newest music is less my taste, I was left with a great deal of respect for her.

 

I have argued here before that her 3 or 4 record run in the early 70s is the best of anyone's at anytime.

[mountain bed]

I got this in the mail yesterday and it's actually pretty good. Probably the most shocking was Bill Mallonee (Vigilantes of Love) at #65. I agree he's a great songwriter but he had to be one of the more obscure acts on the list.

Vigilantes of Love..WOW! Hadn't heard that name for years...my wife & I had our 1st date seeing those guys at the Patio(a Tupelo stronghold) & we were impressed

[parisisstale]

Is Westerberg on there anywhere? Wouldn't expect him to be, but he'd be in my top 10.

[myboyblue]

Is Westerberg on there anywhere? Wouldn't expect him to be, but he'd be in my top 10.

 

he's number 52 or something. Definitely one of the top songwriters of all time.

[Dreamin']

I saw an "American Masters" with Joni (though she is Canadian!) recently that was really really really good. ... I have argued here before that her 3 or 4 record run in the early 70s is the best of anyone's at anytime.

Definitely!

 

My favourite album is For the Roses because it reminds me of the Sunshine Coast (in British Columbia) where she probably wrote most of those songs. I think she still has some property near Halfmoon Bay because a friend of mine ran into her in line at the grocery store a few years ago.

 

"I'm looking way out at the ocean

Love to see that green water in motion

... Fresh salmon frying

And the tide rolling in"

 

"It was just the arbutus rustling

And the bumping of the logs

And the moon swept down black water

Like an empty spotlight"

 

"I run in the woods

I spring from the boulders

Like a mama lion"

 

"Well I'm learning

It's peaceful

With a good dog and some trees"

 

 

I used to wear my hair exactly like that.

[Edie]

 

I am more of a Blue fan, because it has one of the most poignant lyrics ever written.

 

It's coming on Christmas

They're cutting down trees

They're putting up reindeer

And singing songs of joy and peace

Oh I wish I had a river I could skate away on

 

But it don't snow here

It stays pretty green

I'm going to make a lot of money

Then I'm going to quit this crazy scene

Oh I wish I had a river I could skate away on

 

I wish I had a river so long

I would teach my feet to fly

I wish I had a river I could skate away on

I made my baby cry

 

He tried hard to help me

You know, he put me at ease

And he loved me so naughty

Made me weak in the knees

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on

 

I'm so hard to handle

I'm selfish and I'm sad

Now I've gone and lost the best baby

That I ever had

I wish I had a river I could skate away on

 

Oh, I wish I had a river so long

I would teach my feet to fly

I wish I had a river

I could skate away on

I made my baby say goodbye

 

It's coming on Christmas

They're cutting down trees

They're putting up reindeer

And singing songs of joy and peace

I wish I had a river I could skate away on

 

In looking at the lyric, it isn't THAT striking as a lyric on its own. It's her incredible vocal interpretation of them that just does it.

[mpolak21]

This is my personal fav of Joni's, it's from her second record Clouds, not quite on the level of Blue, but a pretty enjoyable record. This song well words really can't do it justice.

 

Songs To Aging Children Come

 

Through the windless wells of wonder

By the throbbing light machine

In a tea leaf trance or under

Orders from the king and queen

 

Songs to aging children come

Aging children, I am one

 

People hurry by so quickly

Don't they hear the melodies

In the chiming and the clicking

And the laughing harmonies

 

Songs to aging children come

Aging children, I am one

 

Some come dark and strange like dying

Crows and ravens whistling

Lines of weeping, strings of crying

So much said in listening

 

Songs to aging children come

Aging children, I am one

 

Does the moon play only silver

When it strums the galaxy

Dying roses will they will their

Perfumed rhapsodies to me

 

Songs to aging children came

This is one

 

 

--Mike

Edited June 3, 2006 by mpolak21

[Gato]

elaborate with specifics?

 

 

Good read.

 

 

THE THIEVING MAGPIES:Jimmy Page's Dubious Recording Legacy

 

Part 2

[BolivarBaLues]

Discography

 

Don't be dissing Joni. She's not just that barefoot hippie chick from 1968 any more than Dylan is just that guy who wrote "Blowin' in the Wind."

 

 

For sure. Her run from Ladies Of The Canyon through Mingus is matched by only a very few, and they're all on that list. And she's a hell of a guitar player who used some very unique tunings. I'd venture that whomever it was that criticized her work hasn't properly listened.

[Lance]

Jay Farrar came in at # 98. Quite the meltdown going on over at jayfarrar.net. Ipecac!

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I'll chime in on the Joni love. Personally, I would put her at #2, right behind Dylan, for the string of albums starting with Clouds and running through Don Juan's Reckless Daughter.

 

I once posted on the Joni Mitchell listserve that I thought she was the most important female songwriter of the 20th century, and someone posted back "Why female? Why not just the most important songwriter?" I had to explain that I rated Dylan above her. Made a few enemies.

 

Out on some borderline

Some mark of in-between

I lay down golden in time

And woke up vanishing

 

Sweet bird you are

Briefer than a falling star

All these vain promises on beauty jars

Somewhere with your wings on time

You must be laughing

 

Behind our eyes

Calendars of our lives

Circled with compromise

Sweet bird of time and change

You must be laughing

Up on your feathers laughing

 

Golden in time

Cities under the sand

Power, ideals and beauty

Fading in everyone's hand

 

Give me some time

I feel like I'm losing mine

Out here on this horizon line

With the earth spinning

And the sky forever rushing

 

No one knows

They can never get that close

Guesses at most

Guesses based on what each set of time and change is touching

[mpolak21]

I picked this up at Kroger's (one of the few places in Charleston, WV with it's finger on the pulse of the indie scene) yesterday. Excellent read, all around, since I recently ended my subscription to Spin (Klosterman leaving finally convinced me to do what I should have done a long time ago), I think I might replace it with Paste. I've bought like the last six issues anyway.

 

--Mike

[BolivarBaLues]

I once posted on the Joni Mitchell listserve that I thought she was the most important female songwriter of the 20th century, and someone posted back "Why female? Why not just the most important songwriter?" I had to explain that I rated Dylan above her. Made a few enemies.

 

 

Joni transcends gender. She is just Art. With a capital "a." I don't think many other contemporary artists (i.e. not jazz) would have received Mingus' respect.

[Oil Can Boyd]

He may not be part of the Paste crowd, but I am surprised that Stephin Merritt didn't make the list.

69 Love Songs alone should get him on that list ...