The impending WWIII

[LouieB]

I believe WWI was known as "The Great War" before it was called WWI

That is correct. it was also known as the "war to end all wars" too I believe, maybe after the fact.

 

I have the impression that the 1939-45 war was called World War II while it was going on, but I can't immediately confirm it.

 

It was noted in the Trib today that the US has been fighting in Iraq longer than we fought the Germans (though not yet the Japanese) in WWII.

 

LouieB

[bjorn_skurj]

Hmm. I know in Germany there was some anti-occupation activity - Werwolfe - but not so much in Japan. Maybe we should have kept Saddam as our stooge, like Hirohito.

[fortuneinmyhead]

Did anyone see the 60 Minutes interview with Iran's president last night?

 

Wallace *did* establish that the president was wearing a nice coat.

[bjorn_skurj]

I hate to come out against peace, but this cease-fire does not seem like a good peace, more like a Versailles peace, one that only makes for a far more destructive war at a later date.

 

Buoyed Hezbollah plans next move

By Martin Asser

BBC News website

 

As a member of Lebanon's multi-confessional government, the militant Shia Muslim movement Hezbollah is formally committed to its own removal as a military presence in south Lebanon.

 

Successive UN resolutions leave no room for doubt - Hezbollah must give up control of the south, allowing government forces and UN peacekeepers to hold sway at Israel's northern borders.

 

But what Resolutions 1559, 1655, 1680 and the latest ceasefire text, Resolution 1701, fail to stipulate is just how this is going to happen.

 

Hezbollah is Lebanon's most significant military power, drawing a considerable part of its support from the Shia Muslim population living in the territory it is being told to vacate.

 

In 2000, its guerrillas were credited with forcing the Israeli army to end a bloody 18-year occupation of the south.

 

Once again, in the summer of 2006, they have fought the region's military superpower to a standstill.

 

'Right to resist'

 

In the last six years, Hezbollah's magnanimity towards the large Christian population in the south - including many who are seen as collaborators with Israel - has broadened its support, as has this latest round of what many Lebanese regard as armed resistance.

 

Indeed, in the minds of many supporters, Hezbollah has a natural right to monopolise land it liberated and whose protection it continues to guarantee without assistance.

 

However, many other Lebanese are angry about the death and destruction brought about by Hezbollah's defiance of Israel.

 

The question is, how do Hezbollah and its charismatic leader Hassan Nasrallah want to take things forward now?

 

On the one hand, they are committed to disarm and leave the border region, but on the other they claim the right to resist Israel's continued presence in the south.

 

Given Hezbollah's military strength, there will be no disarmament without a political agreement at the national level in Lebanon.

 

For such a deal, Hezbollah might demand further concessions from Israel, such as prisoner releases and a handover of the Shebaa Farms, an area which Lebanon claims, but which Israel (backed by the UN) says is part of the Golan Heights - captured from Syria in 1967 and annexed by Israel.

 

And Hezbollah still has as bargaining chips the two Israeli soldiers it captured in a cross-border raid on 12 July - and whose release Israel said its bombardment was meant to secure.

 

Position of strength

 

The initial signs in Beirut do not indicate a trouble-free course ahead. Hezbollah's cabinet ministers threatened to boycott a cabinet meeting on Sunday set up to discuss the ceasefire, causing it to be postponed.

 

They are in a position of strength, because as far as its Islamic Resistance armed wing is concerned, Hezbollah has scored a great victory against the Israeli army.

 

In their martyrdom-orientated philosophy, victory is the fight itself - victory is emerging from four weeks of battling it out, toe-to-toe, against Israel's vastly superior weaponry.

 

Meanwhile, Israel - with strong backing from Washington (and somewhat more unusually from London) - is determined not to allow Hezbollah the kind of pre-eminence it has enjoyed in the south in recent years.

 

For the time being, it says it will keep up the air and sea blockade of Lebanon to prevent supplies to Hezbollah.

 

All this means there will be plenty of fuel for further conflict, with UN resolutions making little difference.

 

In the last hours before the ceasefire, Hezbollah militants were still killing Israeli soldiers in their tanks and raining death and destruction down on northern Israel in the form of Katyusha rockets.

 

It is not clear how much of Hezbollah's guerrilla and missile capability has been affected by Israel's bombing campaign and ground offensive, but it will be the focus of great scrutiny in the coming weeks and months.

[SlowBurn68]

It was noted in the Trib today that the US has been fighting in Iraq longer than we fought the Germans (though not yet the Japanese) in WWII.

 

LouieB

 

Exactly - Look at everything that was accomplished during thoes 4 years - We can't even police an Iraqi neighborhood - What the hell has happened to us?

[WilcoFan]

Exactly - Look at everything that was accomplished during thoes 4 years - We can't even police an Iraqi neighborhood - What the hell has happened to us?

 

 

I grew up thinking that the US was far superior at war than every other country. I guess that was a naive child's thinking from watching tv and movies. But if you think about it, we're not that impressive:

 

WWI: We were barely involved.

 

WWII: We got in late, lost a lot of men, would have lost probably 500,000 more if we didn't drop the bomb.

 

Korea: We didn't exactly clean up there.

 

Vietnam: Huge mistake. (Of course I hear Vietnam is a great place for vacations now...)

 

1st Iraq war: We ended a 50 year policy of containment, didn't really gain anything, got our troops sick with chemical weapons, and is probably the real reason 9/11 ever happened.

 

2nd Iraq war: Need I say more.

 

 

And if you think about it, this is 1984. We have been at war constantly.

[MattZ]

And if you think about it, this is 1984. We have been at war constantly.

 

I think 1984 and Brave New World describe the world with much more accuracy than most people admit to themselves.

[cryptique]

I think 1984 and Brave New World describe the world with much more accuracy than most people admit to themselves.

You better watch it with that thought-crime, Winston.

[c53x12]

WWI: We were barely involved.

 

WWII: We got in late, lost a lot of men, would have lost probably 500,000 more if we didn't drop the bomb.

 

Korea: We didn't exactly clean up there.

 

Vietnam: Huge mistake. (Of course I hear Vietnam is a great place for vacations now...)

 

1st Iraq war: We ended a 50 year policy of containment, didn't really gain anything, got our troops sick with chemical weapons, and is probably the real reason 9/11 ever happened.

 

2nd Iraq war: Need I say more.

And if you think about it, this is 1984. We have been at war constantly.

 

You've painted a pretty bleak picture here. It's almost as easy to paint the rosier side that we all grew up with:

 

WWI: We saved Europe.

 

WWII: We saved Europe again, and fought off Japanese aggressors at the same time.

 

Korea: We stopped a communist advance.

 

Vietnam: We stopped a communist advance again.

 

1st Iraq War: We liberated Kuwait in like 3 days.

 

2nd Iraq War: Ummmmmmmm.....

[cryptique]

Vietnam: We stopped a communist advance again.

Uh...

[caliber66]

You've painted a pretty bleak picture here. It's almost as easy to paint the rosier side that we all grew up with:

 

Vietnam: We stopped a communist advance again.

 

How, exactly, did we stop the communist advance in Vietnam?

 

-what cryptique said.

[JUDE]

How, exactly, did we stop the communist advance in Vietnam?

 

-what cryptique said.

 

If it weren't for your awesome avatar, I'd label you as a commie and report you the House Commission on Un-American activities.

[c53x12]

How, exactly, did we stop the communist advance in Vietnam?

What, you want facts or something? I was painting a picture, remember?

[caliber66]

If it weren't for your awesome avatar, I'd label you as a commie and report you the House Commission on Un-American activities.

 

Nice red dress on Scarlett, there, McCarthy.

[WilcoFan]

You've painted a pretty bleak picture here. It's almost as easy to paint the rosier side that we all grew up with:

 

WWI: We saved Europe.

 

WWII: We saved Europe again, and fought off Japanese aggressors at the same time.

 

Korea: We stopped a communist advance.

 

Vietnam: We stopped a communist advance again.

 

1st Iraq War: We liberated Kuwait in like 3 days.

 

2nd Iraq War: Ummmmmmmm.....

 

 

Well put.

[bjorn_skurj]

At this point, for the sake of historical accuracy, I feel I need to point out that it was the Red Army that beat the Third Reich. We just hastened the process of its capitulation. (The Japanese, however, were all us. Holla!)

[WilcoFan]

At this point, for the sake of historical accuracy, I feel I need to point out that it was the Red Army that beat the Third Reich. We just hastened the process of its capitulation. (The Japanese, however, were all us. Holla!)

 

 

It's very interesting to hear someone my age (31) from Russia talk about WWII. As children, they were never taught that the US was involved in the war. As a child I was never taught that the majority of the war was fought between the USSR and Germany.

[Synthesizer Patel]

It's very interesting to hear someone my age (31) from Russia talk about WWII. As children, they were never taught that the US was involved in the war. As a child I was never taught that the majority of the war was fought between the USSR and Germany.

 

Well Germany declared war on USSR in June 1941 with Operation Barbarossa and USA entered the war in Dec of the same year, so they aren't that far apart. However, us Brits, Australia and France were actually there from the start in 1939, or rather we were there from the point when the Nazi's entered Poland. Certainly more people were mobalised on the Russian front because they had more men, but that's hardly what won us the war. Really it was won in the air and that battle was mainly between Britain and Germany. I saw a program on tv the other week which showed how terrified they were that the Russians took Berlin before the Brits because they knew only too well what they would do to them when they got there, they were of course right. Stalin simply wanted Berlin more than anyone else so he allowed thousands of unnessecary deaths to achieve it as quickly as possible - even the various Russian devisions were fighting against one another to be the first to claim the prize.

 

Obviously without Russia, the Germans would have been able to fight on one front quite happily, but equally the same works in reverse (the Russians had numbers, but they were pretty lousy soldiers - or rather they were led poorly and were often without the right equiptment to fight), so everything put together helped win the war. Fortunately that's what I was taught in school in Britain.

[darkstar]

Also consider that it was the Russin winter that defeated the Nazi's. Everyone makes the mistake of forgetting how brutal that can be. Napolean got screwed by the Russian winter, and so did the Germans. Those who fail to learn the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat it, and all that rot.

[bjorn_skurj]

Give the Brits the phattest of props for holding the line after France fell. Had Britain capitulated, there's no way FDR would have been able to convince the public to go to war against Hitler, especially as the Third Reich would be much strengthened with their access to the British Empire's resources. Given that, he might have even beat Stalin.

Hitler was an absolute retard when it came to actually conducting a war. He believed Barbarossa would be an instant success - "All you have to do is kick in the door, and the whole rotten structure will collapse" - and didn't bother to supply the Wehrmacht with winter equipment.

[bjorn_skurj]

This just in:

 

SEOUL, South Korea (AP)_North Korean army says US-South Korean military exercises are a "war action" that renders Korean War armistice "null and void."

[bjorn_skurj]

update:

 

NKorea threatens action amid US-SKorean military exercises

 

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - The North Korean army said Tuesday that continuing U.S.-South Korean military exercises were tantamount to war and threatened to take action, saying the drills rendered "null and void" the armistice that ended the 1950-53 Korean War.

 

The statement from the North's Korean People's Army outpost at the truce village of Panmunjom comes amid renewed concerns that the communist nation is possibly planning to test a nuclear weapon, following its provocative missile launches last month.

 

The U.S. and South Korea on Monday launched annual military exercises, which the North had previously said would be considered a declaration of war.

 

The North Korean army "reserves the right to undertake a pre-emptive action for self-defense against the enemy at a crucial time it deems necessary to defend itself," the military said in a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency.

 

It wasn't immediately clear whether the North has previously made such a direct declaration calling the Korean War armistice "null and void." However, it commonly issues heated statements warning that the peninsula stands on the brink of renewed war.

[c53x12]

Pure bluster.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I've noticed that this place is about 10 times less politically charged that it used to be. I can't help but wonder if that is a good thing or if we are just occupying ourselves a little too much with bread and circuses.

 

Anyhow, I will throw this out there:

 

I think it's time that we kiss our allies Israel goodbye. What have they ever done for us? They've completely overreacted on this and will manage to destablize the entire middle east even further.

 

Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,

His enemies say he's on their land.

They got him outnumbered about a million to one,

He got no place to escape to, no place to run.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,

He's criticized and condemned for being alive.

He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,

He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,

He's wandered the earth an exiled man.

Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,

He's always on trial for just being born.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,

Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.

Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.

The bombs were meant for him.

He was supposed to feel bad.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim

That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,

'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back

And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

He got no allies to really speak of.

What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.

He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied

But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,

They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.

Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.

To hurt one they would weep.

They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,

Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.

He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,

In bed with nobody, under no one's command.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,

No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.

He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,

Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

What's anybody indebted to him for?

Nothin', they say.

He just likes to cause war.

Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,

They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.

He's the neighborhood bully.

 

What has he done to wear so many scars?

Does he change the course of rivers?

Does he pollute the moon and stars?

Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,

Running out the clock, time standing still,

Neighborhood bully.

[street spirit]

The North Korean army "reserves the right to undertake a pre-emptive action for self-defense against the enemy at a crucial time it deems necessary to defend itself,"

 

good thing no one's tried to set that precedent... oh wait.

 

in all seriousness though, i agree that it's probably "bluster"