bobbob1313 Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 I think it's great that Papelbon will be back in the closer's spot. With a rehabilitated, strong, healthy arm (according to medical experts) it's a natural fit for him. He's proven he can be a dominant force in the closer role. Who knows how he would've faired as a starter? Plus, it'll be a mental boost for the starters/releivers knowing he'll be coming in to wrap things up. Nothing wrong with this scenario, except tthat he Sox need to now put confidence into another starter.... Snyder? Tavares? Lester al ittle later? I'm kind of of the opinion that the closer's role is overrated, and that you never want to put your best reliever back there. They could get the most usage out of Papelbon by using him in close and late situations when the game is either tied or they are up by 1-2 or down by 1-2. Saving him specifically for when you have a 3 run lead in the ninth is a waste because you are going to win that game 90% of the time regardless of who is out there. (Those stats are like true, and stuff. I wish Bill James' book was online. He explains it better.) Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Bobbob: I agree. It's an often overrated role and the better arm can typically be better served in close games in the middle-late innings. It goes against current trends in the game, but it still amazes me that more managers don't utilize THE CLOSER in tighter situations not called the 9th inning. Still, I think Paps may have gotten a bad taste of what would be entailed in the starter slot. He feels more comfortable in the closer role and wants to make his career there. The BOS brass seem to agree with him. Both sides are happy, so I'm down with it too. It would be cool (and hopefully beneficial) to see him used in the tight middle/late innings, though. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 Bobbob: I agree. It's an often overrated role and the better arm can typically be better served in close games in the middle-late innings. It goes against current trends in the game, but it still amazes me that more managers don't utilize THE CLOSER in tighter situations not called the 9th inning. Still, I think Paps may have gotten a bad taste of what would be entailed in the starter slot. He feels more comfortable in the closer role and wants to make his career there. The BOS brass seem to agree with him. Both sides are happy, so I'm down with it too. It would be cool (and hopefully beneficial) to see him used in the tight middle/late innings, though. Oh, hey if I had his arm I would be a closer too. IMO it's the easiest job in professional baseball. I mean, getting 3 guys out without giving up 3 runs? He's a smart kid, I'll say that. He knows where the money is. A "dominant" closer can pitch until he's 40 without really falling off, and he'll probably end up making more money this way. The Marlins infield coach retired today. Sucks, he's always been one of my favorite coaches, and he's been there for a good 5-6 years. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 That's one of the most often overlooked aspects of the A's success over Billy Beane -- they consistently throw someone in the closer's role, turn them into a name, and then trade them well over value. The fact of the matter is, pretty much any Major League pitcher could easily put up 40 saves a year if his team is good and he's used in save situations consistently. The majority of saves, as bobbob said, are simply a matter of not giving up 3 runs in an inning. Most managers misuse their bullpen horribly. In theory, the closer is the best guy in the bullpen -- wouldn't you be better using that guy in tie games than when your team is up by 2 or 3? When is it more important not to give up any runs? The craziest part of it is that most teams use their bullpen properly in the playoffs. But if they realise that that's the best use of their bullpen in the playoffs, why not in the regular season? Sure, you're going to make some adjustments so as to not overuse your bullpen ace, but that's still how they are best used. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Oh, hey if I had his arm I would be a closer too. IMO it's the easiest job in professional baseball. I mean, getting 3 guys out without giving up 3 runs? He's a smart kid, I'll say that. He knows where the money is. A "dominant" closer can pitch until he's 40 without really falling off, and he'll probably end up making more money this way. The Marlins infield coach retired today. Sucks, he's always been one of my favorite coaches, and he's been there for a good 5-6 years.How has no one pointed out the fallacy that closers don't always enter the game with a three run lead? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 How has no one pointed out the fallacy that closers don't always enter the game with a three run lead? I've got no stats to back up this argument, but I would say they probably do it at least 33% of the time they go in for a save. And either way, most pitchers, even the worst in the game can go one inning without giving up a run most of the time. Because it is rare to see a pitcher with a 9 ERA, which is what theirs would have to be in order to blow every single save opportunity if put in with a one run lead. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I've got no stats to back up this argument, but I would say they probably do it at least 33% of the time they go in for a save. And either way, most pitchers, even the worst in the game can go one inning without giving up a run most of the time. Because it is rare to see a pitcher with a 9 ERA, which is what theirs would have to be in order to blow every single save opportunity if put in with a one run lead. Having watched the Red Sox try a bullpen by committee in 2003 - and failing pretty miserably - I think it changes the dynamic of the pitching staff pretty significantly knowing that there is a real closer who can shut down the other team late in the game. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Having watched the Red Sox try a bullpen by committee in 2003 - and failing pretty miserably - I think it changes the dynamic of the pitching staff pretty significantly knowing that there is a real closer who can shut down the other team late in the game. See I disagree. The Marlins have been in the top half in the league in saves with Braden Looper, Armando Benitez, Todd Jones, and Joe Borowski in the past four years. None of those guys have ever been considered lights out pitchers, but the Marlins put them in the closer role, and they thrived. You plug an average pitcher into an easy situation and he'll make you look good. Link to post Share on other sites
Twisted Acres Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Where have you gone, O Mighty Complete Game? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 Where have you gone, O Mighty Complete Game? I'd like to see it make a comeback. Whats the highest toal in recent years? I know Randy Johnson had 8 in 2002 and AJ Burnett had 7 the same year, and I can't remember anyone having that many since. Livan Hernandez had 9 in 04 Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I'll say this much: closers are used in one-inning, three-run-lead situations significantly more often than they are used in tie games. Would anyone disagree with this? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 According to Peter Gammons, the 02 ASG ended in a tie because of a drunk pitcher: One of baseball's silliest notions is to pretend the All-Star exhibition "means" something, more than the price ticketholders spend in September, when games should be more important than something no one cares about. As it turns out, the reason the 2002 All-Star Game ended up tied was that a pitcher on one of the two teams was imbibing in the clubhouse and was not in condition to pitch, hence the game ended. And that's how home-field advantage is decided in the World Series, not by regular-season excellence. But then, what owner thinks about the guys who spend their money on tickets? Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Brian Anderson on the HGH Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Brian Anderson on the HGH You should be happy. Maybe he'll be able to hit now. Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 well, one can hope Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I'll say this much: closers are used in one-inning, three-run-lead situations significantly more often than they are used in tie games. Would anyone disagree with this?Of course they are. The role, like it or not, is to close out games in which the team has a lead, not to prolong games that are tied. Not saying that's the best use of the position, but there it is. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 And the Marlins respond to the criticism that they didn't make any serious moves this offseason by dealing for Jorge Julio. Awesome job, guys! We're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic... No move is better than this move... Link to post Share on other sites
Willkoman Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Harang to get opening day nod. Link to post Share on other sites
Willkoman Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 This post has been taken down. There is no need to start the season with dissention in the clubhouse. Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 easy, it's only one game, who cares who starts. Lets just win ! Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Today I can say I'm glad Ugueth Urbina isn't on my keeper team (yeah I know he hasn't thrown an MLB pitch in a few years...):http://feed.insnews.org/v-cgi/feeds.cgi?fe...tory_id=2779527 Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 B. Looper pitched 6 scoreless innings today Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 B. Looper pitched 6 scoreless innings today Exhibition against a high school team? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 I cannot wait for Monday. The Marlins announced their starting center fielder today, and it's a kid who's got some major skills but has never played above Double A. .720 career minor league OPS, but he destroyed the Grapefruit league, and since he have no other options who actually did something during ST who have a higher pedigree, I'd say he's the guy to go with. Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Exhibition against a high school little league team? Link to post Share on other sites
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