Sparky speaks Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 What's the story here? Did they have a permit? Were they trespassing. I'm sure the pepper spray hurt like shit, but when you participate in civil disobedience, you assume certain risks. It certainly appears to me from that video that it was clear the police were going to use the spray. If the protesters wanted to avoid the spray, the could have moved. If they were in violation of the law (and again, I don't know if they were), then I see little wrong with this. Kent State this is not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Seig heil!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htg-1FHBol4 The University of California Davis has launched an investigation into claims police used pepper spray on students on one of its campuses. Just an FYI: The students are actually protesting the proposed tuition increase of 81% throughout the University of California system. 9.8% of which was approved this past July and 8% before that. What is purposed is that there will a 16% increase every year for the next four, if state funding continues to be stagnant. Many are also occupying to join in solidarity the with Occupy Wall Street protests but this protest was assembled in regards to the tuition hike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 What's the story here? Did they have a permit? Were they trespassing. I'm sure the pepper spray hurt like shit, but when you participate in civil disobedience, you assume certain risks. It certainly appears to me from that video that it was clear the police were going to use the spray. If the protesters wanted to avoid the spray, the could have moved. If they were in violation of the law (and again, I don't know if they were), then I see little wrong with this. Kent State this is not.I don't give a fuck what they were doing. If they were not an immediate threat to the police, they should not have been pepper sprayed. Police should not be empowered to use pepper spray to make it more convenient to pry apart nonviolent protestors engaged in civil disobedience. That video is clear evidence of police brutality and I hope everyone involved in the execution of that operation feels the consequences. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8775ZmNGFY8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I am not trying to pick a fight here, seriously. I hope I live my whole life and never have to face the pain that pepper spray must induce. My viewing of this video makes it appear that the police did not do this without any warning. Had the protesters been asked to disperse? Did they refuse? Were they in violation of the law? If the answers to any of these questions is no then a totally agree with 66rebilac. If the answer to all is yes, then how best should the police subdue the protesters to make sure they do not become a threat as arrests begin? There may be other ways, I am no expert in crowd control. My main point is that protesters have faced much worse than pepper spray in the past and now. In the light of things like Kent State, police dogs mauling civil rights protesters, and Christians in Egypt being slaughtered this doesn't seem in the same ballpark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The point is not that they were not warned. The point is, pepper spray, which has the potential to be lethal, is not appropriate for use in this situation, as there was no need to subdue the protestors. The cops did not use pepper spray for their safety, they used it for their convenience. I find that abhorrent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 If you can put up with Chris Hayes this is pretty good... Corporate America Is Using the Police Departments As Hired Thugs - Ret Police Captain Ray Lewis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxk8OYiZ3vk&feature=player_embedded Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The more I consider the situation, the more I think the crowd would not have become unruly once they began to forcibly arrest the protesters. The use of pepper spray was probably excessive. I don't have all the facts, but I doubt the video showed all the facts either. I'm glad there will be an investigation. Having said that, however, I think a warning would be a major factor. If the police told them they were going to use pepper spray, then everyone had it within their ability to avoid being sprayed. Also, I don't understand the comment from the retired police officer in the MSNBC video. These kids were protesting tuition increases at a public university, right? While he was discussing the behavior of NYPD at Occupy Wall Street, his comments about "hired thugs" was in direct response to the video. What does this have to do with corporate America? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I'm not sure what facts we might find in the few seconds of video prior to the spraying could convince me that the police were justified in spraying capsaicin into the faces of protestors seated on the ground with their arms locked together. And I'm not sure what relevance there is to the fact that they were warned that they would be sprayed. What if the cops had warned them that they would be shot with rubber bullets or a water cannon? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 What if the cops had warned them that they would be shot with rubber bullets or a water cannon?They weren't. That's kind of my point. Excessive? Probably. Shocking and outrageous? Less so, to me, than lots of other examples of police action. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Fair enough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Ten Things You Should Know About Friday’s UC Davis Police Violence 1. The protest at which UC Davis police officers used pepper spray and batons against unresisting demonstrators was an entirely nonviolent one. None of the arrests at UC Davis in the current wave of activism have been for violent offenses. Indeed, as the New York Times reported , the university’s administration has “reported no instances of violence by any protesters.” Not one. 2. The unauthorized tent encampment was dismantled before the pepper spraying began. Students had set up tents on campus on Thursday, and the administration had allowed them to stay up overnight. When campus police ordered students to take the tents down on Friday afternoon, however, most complied. The remainder of the tents were quickly removed by police without incident before the pepper spray incident. 3. Students did not restrict the movement of police at any time during the demonstration. After police made a handful of arrests in the course of taking down the students’ tents, some of the remaining demonstrators formed a wide seated circle around the officers and arrestees. UC Davis police chief Annette Spicuzza has claimed that officers were unable to leave that circle: “There was no way out,” she told the Sacramento Bee. “They were cutting the officers off from their support. It’s a very volatile situation.” But multiple videos clearly show that the seated students made no effort to impede the officers’ movement. Indeed, Lt. Pike, who initiated the pepper spraying of the group, was inside the circle moments earlier. To position himself to spray, he simply stepped over the line. 4. Lt. Pike was not in fear for his safety when he sprayed the students. Chief Spicuzza told reporters on Thursday that her officers had been concerned for their safety when they began spraying. But again, multiple videos show this claim to be groundless. The most widely distributed video of the incident begins just moments before Lt. Pike begain spraying, but another video, which starts a few minutes earlier, shows Pike chatting amiably with one activist, even patting him casually on the back. Read the rest:http://refreshingnews9.blogspot.com/2011/11/ten-things-you-should-know-about.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Tatlock Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Tatlock Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Tatlock Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBFAFk8Ui7A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 New Tom Waits Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SarahC Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHn_Kb4Dz40&ob=av2e New Tom Waits this is really good.i've decided that listening/watching tom waits is like experiencing live theater. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anthony Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1irjRAvy9c Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anthony Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvh4xitM2qI.Is that Leroy on keys? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 My son informed me a friend of his has a role in this video.How times have changed.That would have a major deal in my day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IATTBYB Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I just love the passion some of these kids bring.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVJfErLlyLI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 DAMN that Iron and Wine song is good. Ive listened to it about 50 times Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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