willstafa24 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I've read a great deal of reviews of Wilco as a band over the years and have noticed that a bunch of reviewers have said that Tweedy's lyrics are not one of the band's strong suits. I wonder about these opinions because I happen to think that it is actually a Tweedy strong suit. I think we all know that Tweedy does not feel entirely comfortable performing solos by himself (a reason why a guitar player like Nels is in the band), so, as a result, Tweedy spends a good amount of time writing lyrics. I have always felt that Wilco has had fantastic lyrics; words that aren't so straight-forward: "All I can see is black and whiteAnd white and pink with blades of blueThat lay between the words I think on a pageI was meaning to send toYou I couldn't tell if it'd bring my heartThe way I wanted when I startedWriting this letter to you" I think these are my favorite Wilco lyrics because of the fluidity they provide. Tweedy does not use the traditional last word of one line rhymes with the next lines' last word. the word "pink" rhymes with the word "think" in the next line. Furthermore, just reading them does not give them justice. The transition between "to send to... You I couldn't tell..." is fantastic. In the context of the song there is a perfect transition between the two lines. I am tired of critics saying that Wilco's weak point is their lyrics. I happen to believe that without these creative lyrics the music would not carry the weight it currently does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
W(TF) Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 JT is a hugely gifted writer. Any music critic that fails to recognize this should proceed to the nearest tall bridge and throw themselves off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I've read a great deal of reviews of Wilco as a band over the years and have noticed that a bunch of reviewers have said that Tweedy's lyrics are not one of the band's strong suits. Only with SBS, really. Many have critiqued these as his weakest lyrics, but as has been said, they're just more straight forward. Anyway, I have read many more articles in praise of Jeff's songwriting than the opposite. He is often cited as one of the best songwriters of hs generation, so I'm not sure what articles you're talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
willstafa24 Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Only with SBS, really. Many have critiqued these as his weakest lyrics, but as has been said, they're just more straight forward. Anyway, I have read many more articles in praise of Jeff's songwriting than the opposite. He is often cited as one of the best songwriters of hs generation, so I'm not sure what articles you're talking about. Well, I have read the Rolling Stone review, and it reads, "After a hundred listens or so, you start to notice that even the lyrics, not always a Wilco specialty, are pretty excellent", which I know is some form of a complement, but is actually an insult in the fact that a "hundred" listens is what it needs to appreciate the lyrics. I'm sure that most of these critics are saying that relative to the music the lyrics are "sub-par" but to the common reader the interpretation is that Wilco's lyrics are not a strong suit, and I really dislike this style. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
winter party person Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 You are my face has some of the best lyrics Jeffs ever written Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blindgonzo Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 You are my face has some of the best lyrics Jeffs ever written Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boots Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 for my money this is the best song lyrical Tweedy has ever written She's a Jar She's a jarWith a heavy lidMy pop quiz kidA sleepy kisserA pretty warWith feelings hidShe begs me not to miss her She says foreverTo light a fuseWe could useA handful of wheelAnd a day offAnd a bruised roadHowever, you might feelTonight is real When I forget how to talk, I singWon't you pleaseBring that flash to shineAnd turn my eyes redUnless they closeWhen you clickAnd my face gets sickStuck, like a question unposed Just climb aboardThe tracks of a train's armIn my fragile family treeAnd watch me floating inches aboveThe people underneath Please beware the quiet front yardI warned youBefore there were water skiesI warned you not to driveDry your eyes, you poor devil Are there really ones like these?The ones I dreamFloat like leavesAnd freeze to spread skeleton wingsI passed through before I knew you I believe it's just becauseDaddy's payday is not enoughOh I believe it's all becauseDaddy's payday is not enough Just climb aboardThe tracks of a train's armIn my fragile family tree And watch me floating inches aboveThe people underneath She's a jarWith a heavy lidMy pop quiz kidA sleepy kisserA pretty warWith feelings hid You know she begs me Not to hit her Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 ok all right ok all right best. line. evar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 jeff tweedy's lyrics make me hungry to listen to his every song every day, each time a fresh and fascinating experience. they make me think. many of them can have many different meanings, depending on who you are, or what time of life you're at, or how much ambivalence and ambiguity you believe you can handle on a given day. for me, the ambivalence and ambiguity he expresses, whether subtle or overt, get at the very core of life as a human being. they're deeply, painfully honest, and they leave most beliefs and assumptions open to question. this makes a lot of people uncomfortable, as abstract art does. matisse said "it isn't the fault of abstraction that few people can really think abstractly." we can be grateful that people who find abstraction difficult don't manage to scare off the matisses and rothkos and jeff tweedys and anyone else who challenges their viewers/listeners to think, and to accept the unmistakable absence of black-and-whiteness in life. i'm a middle-aged newcomer to jeff tweedy and wilco, but he struck me immediately and hard. i love his imperfect but dynamic voice, i love his(their) music, but most of all -- what stays with me day after day -- i love his poetry, dark and difficult though it is in various eras of his life. that IS life, just as the heightened directness of most of SBS is life. he is MOVING through life. anyone who thinks his lyrics are a problem should go back to something more predictable and comfortable (how about those eagles). after discovering jeff tweedy, i can still love the sound or rhythm of a huge number of rockers and folk artists who came before -- and i did enjoy them -- but they don't hold my interest as much, can't be as compelling, anymore. in one of the dvds jeff talks about people thinking that music makes them feel a certain way, whereas he believes that the music simply allows them to recognize something they already feel. i think he's absolutely right about this, and that's probably what scares the people who want to ignore what he says or call it too difficult or too out-there. it's like they want an I.V. pumping predictability into their bodies. well, don't look to jeff tweedy for that, and i say Good Luck disparaging him for speaking so much subtle truth, which doesn't always rhyme, end where it started like a circle, or snap to grid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badger Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Sweetheart-mine, extremely eloquently and accurately put. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dondoboy Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 AGIB is my favorite lyrically (musically too probably). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 thank you kindly, badger. i'm glad willstafa24 brought up such a thought-provoking question. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badger Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 thank you kindly, badger. i'm glad willstafa24 brought up such a thought-provoking question. Yeah, but often people ask me why I'm so into Wilco, and sometimes it isn't so easy to distill it into something that's easy to understand. You nailed it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 badger, it isn't easy to explain, is it? i've had that problem myself when asked on the spot. maybe it'll go a little better now . . .thanks for making my day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magusmachine Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I've always really loved Jeff's lyrics and considered them one of the better parts of the equation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poppydawn Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Well, I have read the Rolling Stone review, and it reads, "After a hundred listens or so, you start to notice that even the lyrics, not always a Wilco specialty, are pretty excellent", which I know is some form of a complement, but is actually an insult in the fact that a "hundred" listens is what it needs to appreciate the lyrics. I'm sure that most of these critics are saying that relative to the music the lyrics are "sub-par" but to the common reader the interpretation is that Wilco's lyrics are not a strong suit, and I really dislike this style. I read that same review, and I was so disappointed. The reviewer, Rob Sheffield, is usually on-target and I was so surprised for him to say that Wilco's lyrics are not their strong suit. Like the music, the lyrics are more complex than the usual drivel. That's one of the reasons why I'm so hooked on them. I like having to listen to a song more than once to fully get what's being said. I can't begin to pick a favorite. I love the clever wordplay in songs like "Kingpin". The first verse of "Shot in the Arm" has incredible imagery. Lately I've been picking "Sky Blue Sky" to bits, since it's about Main Street in Belleville. Since I happen to live on Main Street in B'ville, I've gotten a little obsessed with trying to find the inspirations for the words. If I had to pick a favorite, lyrically, I would probably have to go with "War on War". It's a long story as to why. The short version: listening to the song while going through a rough period in my life, it suddenly made sense to me after years of listening to it. Around that same time I saw the "Austin City Limits" from 2004, where Jeff talked about how the meaning of lyrics come partially from the writer and partially from the listener, which was certainly what I had experienced with "War on War". I know what the lyrics mean to me, based on my experiences. I'm sure they mean something different to Jeff. That's the beauty of music that goes beyond discussions of what to do with the junk in one's trunk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Like the music, the lyrics are more complex than the usual drivel. That's one of the reasons why I'm so hooked on them. I like having to listen to a song more than once to fully get what's being said. . . . If I had to pick a favorite, lyrically, I would probably have to go with "War on War". It's a long story as to why. The short version: listening to the song while going through a rough period in my life, it suddenly made sense to me after years of listening to it. Around that same time I saw the "Austin City Limits" from 2004, where Jeff talked about how the meaning of lyrics come partially from the writer and partially from the listener, which was certainly what I had experienced with "War on War". I know what the lyrics mean to me, based on my experiences. I'm sure they mean something different to Jeff. That's the beauty of music that goes beyond discussions of what to do with the junk in one's trunk.all so true. and it does seem impossible to pick a favorite; for one thing, my favorite keeps changing. "war on war" has remained up there in my top 5 all along, probably for reasons different from your or jeff's interpretations! tomorrow something else will float up into the top 5 -- maybe a song i've listened to ten times and suddenly, on the eleventh listen, i actually hear what it means. i still have a lot of listening to do (how lucky!), but right now the lyrics of "in a future age," "hell is chrome," "less than you think," and "theologians" strike me as especially brilliant and alive. from SBS, "you are my face" and "side with the seeds" speak to me most so far. they all call on my imagination, which is the beauty of the meaning of lyrics coming partly from the listener. i'm glad you brought up jeff's awareness of that. what a gift it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
W(TF) Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 for my money this is the best song lyrical Tweedy has ever written I don't know about that, but it's my favorite track right now from the studio records. Not just for the lyrics, I love the tune....great synths, the harmonica, and a killer bass line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loldoctor Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I've always loved Jeff Tweedy's lyrics. I'm a songwriter myself, and a major part of my writing goes into lyrics, which I think is why I like Wilco so much. Jeff Tweedy has commented a couple of times on how he writes songs, and I think it's in 'Learning How To Die' that he says a bunch of the lyrics on Being There were just made up as he went along, never really written down, but would just evolve with the song. This struck me as odd since I write songs the same way, just coming up with lyrics on the spot, and then later editting them to get a meaning across. This way of writing, I've found, and its noteable in Wilco, is what allows such great phrasing, the way things don't have to rhyme to sound good. The lyrics are completely reliant on the songwriters ear, the same way coming up with a catchy melody (another talent of Tweedy's) doesn't take long hours to do, it just sparks and happens. When you write like that you get those great roll-off-the-tongue phrases like the ones mentioned in this thread. It takes a certain ability to do it, and more than that a real confidence to be able to just say words and not think about them, even if you say something stupid as hell, and just move on and let the song do the talking. For Tweedy and myself music seems to be an expression more than anything, which you can really see in his guitar on AGIB--it sucks ass, the tone is terrible, he messes up constantly, but above all of that it's gorgeous, making it one of my favorite if not my favorite albums by them. But I think what seperates him from most songwriters, myself included, is his ability to take a straight-forward statement and twist it. I fell in love with Jeff Tweedy when I listened to IATTBYH for the fifteenth time and it finally dawned on me what 'I assassin down the avenue' meant. After that I began tearing through his lyrics, looking for other little twistings of words, the way he can play with two meanings--Shes A Jar being likened with shes ajar... It's genius. But like I said, I didn't even realize it until the fifteenth listen. Wilco is a band that stradles the border between pop and "indie" music, mixing Tweedy's great and catchy melodies with often abrasive guitars, strange sounds, long progressions, and sometimes leaving you wanting that chorus that never comes. At the same time they never reach the swarms of sound that make bands like The Arcade Fire or Sigur Ros enjoyable to those people who want to just disappear in the music--which isn't a fault at all. I think Tweedy wants you to be aware that you're listening to a song, wants you to listen to the lyrics because they are mixed so loud. But at the same time, albums like YHF seem to drag you into this other place, where yes you can hear words, no you don't disappear into the warmth of music like you would with other bands, but you feel out of yourself. When I first listened to YHF, with the closing track finally winding down, I was awe-struck. I felt as though I had just ventured into the mind of an artist, lived among his most honest and serious sentiments--'All my lies are always wishes' slapped me in the face, 'I've got reservations about so many things but not about you' made me feel lonely, struck by his feelings for his wife, his children, his entire life. In the IATTBYH DVD you can hear Wilco introduced as 'one of the most daring bands in rock and roll', or something of the like, and I think the same can be said about their lyrics. Tweedy puts it all out there, wears his life on his sleeves, bears his soul to the world in his music and doesn't except anyone to feel sympathy, or to call him tortured, or to say he's a genius, or any of that bullshit. It's just how he writes, how he's always written, and there's nothing he can do except write more. In the Shake It Off DVD he mentions that he wanted SBS to be an album he could listen to, to just fucking play, or something like that, and I think that's why his lyrics are as they are on the album. He didn't want another Summerteeth, which is plagued by some seriously harsh lyrics, and he didn't want YHF, which is pockmarked with the struggles of someone who doesn't understand why he does things. He just wanted to chill out, get lost in the music, play along in his head (which SBS is great for), and not feel those things again. I have written songs that have frightened me in their honesty and sometimes they have been good, but still I tuck them away for fear of ever letting someone hear the words coming from my mouth. Tweedy has written songs just as honest and then published them to millions of people, the way you mail off a letter to your loved one that is filled with angry words but needs to be said, and you already wrote it so why not? But who wants to read that note five years later, after the emotions are gone, after you know the outcome? No one. SBS is a love-letter, one that can be revisitted with fondness rather than cringing, and the lyrics are just as good, only in a different way. I've written too much, I got a little lost in the moment there. But I'll end things with my favorite Wilco lyric: 'At least that's what you said.' Which, when you think about it, is the greatest thing to say just before you bare all of your emotions without muttering a single word. 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sweetheart-mine Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 loldoctor, thank you for this. it's riveting to read the thoughts on tweedy's lyrics of someone who is also a songwriter. you say a lot, and i learned a lot. re: his wanting people to listen to his lyrics, to be aware they're listening to a song, this must be true. i can't do a single other thing while listening to him, discovered that right away. while listening (which is every day), i put these big headphones around my ears and sit like a statue for an hour at a time. i don't even want to hear normal outdoor sounds through closed windows -- i HAVE to pay attention. i once had the sunken treasure dvd audio going in the car while my sister was riding with me, and she kept talking and it drove me nuts. i had to turn the music off; it was either that or pull over and leave her on the side of the road! i get very lost in the lyrics and music, far more than with any other musician. an hour can feel like five glorious hours or five acutely immersed minutes. either way, i've always been on some journey that has a real hold on me, that i don't want to let go of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
willstafa24 Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 It's crazy to read all these thoughts: the favorite songs lyrically, the favorite lines, favorite album for lyrics, opinions on Jeff, people's opinions. I brought this topic up because I go way back to Uncle Tupelo and I've seen an evolution in lyrics from each album. I am twenty-four but my father loves Uncle Tupelo as well as Wilco and Son Volt. He even likes The Bottle Rockets! So, I started listening to "A.M.", "Trace" and "No Depression" at the same time in 1995. I instantly fell in love with all of them. As a result, I have listened to all the Wilco albums throughout the bands trek across rock 'n roll, and have found that with each album's change in musical style, so has the lyrics. There's the straightforwardness of "A.M". (a rushed album), to the incredibly disjointed lyrics (as well as musically; sounds like three albums in one) on "Being There", to the obscure imagination of the lyrics on Summerteeth, to the heartfelt metaphors on "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot", to the bipolar lyrics of "A Ghost is Born" to, finally, the brutally honest lyrics of "Sky Blue Sky". Wilco changes it's music from album to album, which has helped keep to band together for twelve years, but they also change the lyrics. The obscurity of some lyrics adds a bit of a relief to the more straightforward songs. "Sky Blue Sky", for example, helps Wilco fans to trust the band, to see them naked for a moment instead of behind a see-through curtain. I always listen to the lyrics of Wilco, which is why there is such a following now. They are a favorite band because I receive two elements from them: the music and the lyrics at the same time. That requires a great deal of attention and, as a result, allows me the hear every element of the song. Nothing is on the surface. Lyrically and musically there hasn't been a band this diverse since The Grateful Dead, prior to Jerry' Garcia's coma. Trey Anastasio doesn't think lyrics are even close-to-as important as the music, but he is wrong. Every band or artist has the opportunity to enhance music and lyrics together but very few of them accomplish it. Finally, if anyone has read this far or even cares, my favorite Wilco song is War on War because the lyrics scare the crap out of me and the song has a distinct beginning, middle and end; similar to the life it discusses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yankee Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Jeff Tweedy has commented a couple of times on how he writes songs, and I think it's in 'Learning How To Die' that he says a bunch of the lyrics on Being There were just made up as he went along, never really written down, but would just evolve with the song.Good point, gotta borrow that DVD from someone again. Watched it when it first came out before I got more into the music.Lyrics and songwriting came up at the Feb. living room show this year. Since the group was made up of musicians (most of us amateurs with other jobs) it was more of a living room group jam session than a concert. Jeff poked fun at his lyrics for some of songs (Pecan Pie, Walken, Kicking Television). "Yeah, you guys pick some songs with some really great lyrics." (said with Jeff's typical sarcastic dry humor). Anyway, I like both the more straightforward lyrics and the more abstract. I always felt that there's not a "right" answer in how to interpret the more abstract lyrics. They convey a feeling, an impression, and they mean different things to different listeners. We each add a layer of meaning from our own experience. Anyway, Jeff made a few comments that seemed kind of along those same lines in terms of what songs mean to people. Jeff also mentioned that it was cool for him to hear what the songs have meant to us and it that gives him new perspectives on his own songs. Maybe he was just being nice, but he seemed genuine. What a gracious, smart and interesting artist! And a fun person to jam with! Hmmm, another thought . . . I'm no music critic or anything, but I've often thought that some great songwriters seem to go through different phases: 1. The early work: simple and straightforward2. branching out: a little more abstract3. pushing the envelope: really abstract and out there, 4. maturing/bringing it all together: selectively draws on elements of all of the previous phases, producing lyrics/music of simple elegance, abstract beauty, and resonating depth Think John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Jeff Tweedy? finally, this resonates with me lately: "with a sky blue skythis rotten timewouldn't seem so bad to me now.i didn't diei should be satisfiedi survivedthat's good enough for now" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Left Arm Tan Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Jeff Tweedy is my favorite songwriter ever. His lyrics are fantastic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Justadream Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 theologians and in a future age are special to me. "they thin my heart with little things,and my life with change.oh in so many waysI find more missing every day." 'find more missing' is an extremely clever way to express that feeling. "let's turn our prayers to outrageous dares" one of the encouraging and worthy statements i've heard in music. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mathew Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 jeff tweedy is a poet...there should definetly be discussions on his lyrics but not underrated or overrated Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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