Tweedling Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 It makes my stomach turn slightly to read these posts from people not living in this country. Not to say they can't have an opinion. I just don't think I could do it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 It makes my stomach turn slightly to read these posts from people not living in this country. Not to say they can't have an opinion. I just don't think I could do it. Well, we certainly are bringing our Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, we certainly are bringing our Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, we certainly are bringing our Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Gee, what Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Gee, what Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 We? People on this message board? Big difference.don't I pay for that defense...via my tax dollars? you are also treading into apple and orange territory...widescale national defense of our entire country versus taking care of my family's well-being. the point being, the more people that can take care of themselves doing just that, the more we can focus on people that legitimately can't.if you're saying that there is an disproportionate amount of military spending to things that could be considered more legitimate programs affecting us...i'd never disagree with that.Wouldn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 That goes for anyone on this board who has had the nerve, the audacity to share their opinion - right? No, not really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 No, not really. Awesome, I appreciate your consistency. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Gee, what Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 And being over-protective against terrorist attacks? The chances may be very, very small that it happens to "me" but memories are still very, very vivid of when it happened last. Perhaps you don't understand the impact terrorist attacks have made on people over here being half a world away. I don't know. I'm not so sure there's the pervasive feeling of fear that you perceive there is over here, either. Security at airports, even though they've laxed the past few years, are still on high/paranoia alert. That's the world we live in now. Personally, I'll take the slight inconvenience of security measures in lieu of the slim yet possible alternative without the security. The dude is Irish. I think he's familiar with how terrorism affects a nation. I'm not worried about being inconvenienced in order to guard against terrorism. But I am very concerned with being forced to give up civil liberties in the name of fighting terrorism. Claiming that it's about convenience is a red herring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, gee, Jules, so far, by my count, your post count in this thread is higher than mine, can we consider it hijacked by your own bad self? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, gee, Jules, so far, by my count, your post count in this thread is higher than mine, can we consider it hijacked by your own bad self?not bad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I got a threshold, Jules. I got a threshold for the abuse I'll take. And right now I'm a race car and you got me in the red. I'm just saying that it's fuckin' dangerous to have a racecar in the fuckin' red. It could blow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 The problem is, unless those stats provided earlier are false, it's not just about a little longer wait for your yearly checkup. I'm not sure how you drew that conlcusion. Taken at face value, that piece was tracking an upward trend in Canadian wait times between seeing a general practicioner and a specialist for non-emergency procedures (that very last part might be off, but I'm not going back to check this minute). There's no comparison in that piece to American wait times--which very well might already be higher or increasing at a faster rate. Such data is somewhat hard to come by because there's no U.S. government agency tracking wait times. Here's an article on one study:http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...28/b4042072.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 [quote name='JUDE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 The dude is Irish. I think he's familiar with how terrorism affects a nation. I'm not worried about being inconvenienced in order to guard against terrorism. But I am very concerned with being forced to give up civil liberties in the name of fighting terrorism. Claiming that it's about convenience is a red herring.I'm well aware of problems in Ireland, and he may or may not have personal experiences with terrorism, but this doesn't negate the fact that there is cause for fear here among some people. Americans are "insanely stupid" to fear terrorism doesn't gibe with me. There is recent history in the U.S. to easily validate any fears people might have. I think the giving up of civil liberties is a valid point. There is a fine line between treading on civil liberties and enacting new laws to accommodate modern security issues, though. I don't agree with it, per se, but a part of me believes some things need to be sacrificed for the betterment of the country. Nothing specific here, but a point that needs to be taken into account. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think people are "stupid" to fear terrorism. But I do feel as though the fear of terrorism far outweighs the actual threat, and a lot of people here are so frightened of a threat that will likely never touch them that they are completely unable to think rationally about certain issues. To a significant segment of the United States populace, if a politician says that something will make us safer, then they will be on board regardless of the negative consequences, or whether or not that particular measure will actually even make us safer. Sure, there is always a trade off between freedom and security, but I think that we've gone well beyond the point of treading on some of our most sacred principles. Supposedly (well, at least according to our President), this whole fight against terrorism is all about how they hate our freedom, and how we must do whatever we can to preserve our way of life and our liberty. And yet our own government is dismantling our liberty. Who really hates our freedom, the terrorists who are blowing things up to achieve political objectives in the middle east, or our own politicians who have no regard whatsoever for our Constitution? And before anyone jumps on me for that, I am not defending terrorists, and I am not saying that our government is worse than al Qaeda or anything. I'm just saying that our whole approach to this problem has been completely backwards. We're talking about just giving up the freedoms that we're supposedly trying to defend against terrorism. Doesn't make any sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isadorah Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm just saying that our whole approach to this problem has been completely backwards. We're talking about just giving up the freedoms that we're supposedly trying to defend against terrorism. Doesn't make any sense. here here! [picture applauding emoticon here] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Why is national defense considered mandatory, a right, yet health care for all is not? Because rights are things we have (not something the government gives us) that the government protects. We have a right to not be killed by other people, and the government exists to prevent others from killing us. Healthcare is something that other people produce. It can't be the recipient's right unless the producer has no right to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Number 7:Cancelling Firefly- God damn you Fox It's so true! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamin' Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 It makes my stomach turn slightly to read these posts from people not living in this country. Not to say they can't have an opinion. I just don't think I could do it.I was trying to be sensitive to that. BTW' date=' as a Canadian, I know it's not my place to say what's wrong or right in America. I tried to stay out of this thread, but I'm super passionate about universal health care, etc., so I get sucked-in easily. Also, I find this topic endlessly fascinating, so please forgive my intrusion. I know that it's one thing to look on from the sidelines and quite another to live it on a daily basis. [/quote'] Speaking for myself, I was trying to share another perspective and provide examples of different models of health care and govt. to give people some food for thought. My intention was to expand the conversation, not to take potshots at the US. Also, I think we need to be particularly sensitive when we talk about 9/11. I know that there are several people on this msg board who were directly affected by that tragedy (e.g., lost loved ones) and we may unintentionally hurt or offend them with careless words and comparisons. BTW, you may not know this, but I remember that many Canadians flew the American flag in the weeks that followed as a gesture of solidarity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 A more accurate comparison might be education--that's a positive right that our country, on some level, believes in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 We have a right to not be killed Murder is a crime! unless it is done....by a po-lice-man! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 A more accurate comparison might be education--that's a positive right that our country, on some level, believes in. It gets more complicated with children. Ideally, I would say that children have positive rights but that it's the parents' rather than the government's responsibility to provide them. Unfortunately, that's not realistic, but programs like vouchers could at least move things in that direction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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