No Country for Old Men

[bjorn_skurj]

Though I completely agree with what you have written here, the ending is, for the most part, entirely McCarthy

[Good Old Neon]

How is that book?

 

The most accessible of all McCarthy

[Beltmann]

We focus on the dough and the chase because they make it the focus. If that's not the real story, and the Coens don't care who ends up with the dough, aren't they guilty of playing a trick on their audience for 5/6ths of the film?

Well, no more than Hitchcock "tricks" the audience with his manipulations. Sometimes directors lead audiences one way only in order to later re-direct them, and that process can yield dividends for willing audiences. I'd say the Coens--perhaps following McCarthy's lead, as TDW pointed out--are guilty of manipulating the audience, but not for the trivial purpose of playing a prank; instead, their manipulations are integral to revealing, and deepening, the theme. In other words, I didn't feel tricked or betrayed.

[virtualreason]

My brother-in-law firmly believes the whole movie was the dream spoken of at the end.

 

And I as well. It makes sense for what I make the movie to be (I would explain what that is, but it's more of a feeling than something to be verbalized).

[Big Perm]

SPOILERRRRRSS

 

For Me, (At least one way) Ed Tom returning to crime scene, could have simply been his imagination of what he thought was behind the door. (Have you ever thought about worst case scenario going into the unknown? Boarding a flight, diving into the ocean, busting in a door where you think a bad ass killer is still inside) The look on Chigurth's Face in the hint of light, is crazed, slightly terrorized look, one we know based on his past dealings with anyone, is quite the contrast form his stoic coin-flipping. Ed Tom will be haunted forever by the moment, at the door, building courage, un-clasping the holster, taking out his gun, and all the time imaging the worst case scenario is right behind the door, and the fact that he probably won't make it out of there alive, but once he enters, nothing. Somewhat relieved after checking the place out and then sitting down on the bed, all reflecting upon things already said, some by Ed Tom, other comments by different characters, supernatural ones, "I think he's a ghost" whatever you want the point in my mind, is Ed Tom will now never know how he would have stood up to the ultimate "bad guy" in his day. Not even saying he really wanted to. Then, the dime on the floor, and open vent is just more WTF? in Ed Tom's mind, trying to keep a straight thread through the whole web of what the hell is really going on, or maybe that moment even summed it all up.

 

Opening with Ed Tom's V.O. is strong insight to me as to the ending of the film. ANyway you want it, there's plenty of interpretation in there. I just like to do what I can to keep it simple with the Coen's, rarely is it ever meant to be more, the delivery of it all, and lack of spoon feeding everyone, always keeps us all talking for years to come.

[Marijn]

And as for the Chiguhr theories I read online, people seemed to think that he represented death or the devil in the sense that he was supposed to represent the randomness and inherent cruelty of death.

 

I couldn't help thinking about this theory throughout the movie, because it's exactly what the Coens did in Barton Fink.

[darkstar]

I just got back from seeing this movie. I loved it, thought it was very well done.

 

My 2 cents.....Consider the title "No Country For Old Men". One of the themes I see in this movie is the despair by the older folks. Tommy Lee Jones pondering retirement because he feels overwhelmed, the sherrif in El Paso going on about how the world is changing, people have no respect, etc...I thought the message is that as time progresses the old gaurd feels like they have no place. The morals, ideals, and everything they are used to are going away, replaced by a new generation with its own ideals and morals ( or lack thereof ). They feel like they have no country anymore,. The country they were used to has been taken over by things they just don't know how to deal with. Also, in the beginning Tommy Lee Jones is narrating about the old time sherrifs and how they ran things and how things are now changing. Kind of adds to my thoughts about the theme.

 

Anyways, it's a damn fine movie no matter what. I would reccomend it.

[stooka]

well said

[Hodie]

I finally saw this last night, and really really liked it.

 

Best. Villain. Ever.

 

I think the building of suspense in the second (? the one where the light in the hallway was turned out) motel room was the most masterful I've ever seen.

 

I love that immediately after telling Moss's wife that "I came from the same place the coin did," that is, from randomness/fate, he gets slammed by randomness/fate. I think that was another nice subversion of our expectations -- the genre tells us the bad guy will get caught by the actions of the good guy, when in fact for all we know, a piano could fall on his head in the next second.

 

The only place where I was disappointed was with Woody Harrelson's dialogue. He acted beautifully, his character was a joy to watch and a nice crisp clean breath of fresh air in all that darkness, but his dialogue was kind of arch and pretentious. In a film where no matter what weird thing people said, it sounded absolutely genuine, I kinda cringed at the philosophizing of that character. Maybe there was something in the book that would explain it and so make me not frown at it?

 

I never thought twice about who had the money -- I assumed Chigur knew to look in the air duct, and so he found it when the mexicans didn't. But I agree that it wasn't the point. I just didn't care that much about it by then.

 

Perhaps having been primed by The Sopranos ( ), I had no problem with the ending, except that it came too soon. I could've gazed at that movie for another three hours at least.

[TheMaker]

I saw this again a few nights ago, and I'm rather convinced now that it's the best American film I've seen in many, many, many years. A true masterpiece, head down, flat out, in every sense.

 

I screw up the quote function nearly half the time, but Beltmann said this:

 

That doesn't sound strange at all. In fact, what I like about the final section is that it challenges our notions of how traditional narrative works. Movies have trained us to look for certain signposts and to devise certain expectations--in this case, the genre has taught us to expect SPOILER--but the final section thoroughly subverts that structure. Essentially, we're reminded that the story we thought we were following is not the story at all. The real story exists on a more abstract or psychological level, and the final scene with Jones, retired and filled with musings, is a clear indication that the Coens are less interested in Moss and Chigurh's cat-and-mouse story than in the consequences (and metaphorical meanings) of that story. In the end, who "gets" the money is irrelevant to the real story; I don't really care who has the dough, and I don't think the Coens care, either.

 

And it's just bang on, at least for my money.

 

I think there's a real nihilistic bent to the story, which manifests itself powerfully in the film's startling and quite discomfiting final act. Ed Tom visits his brother (cousin? All I could tell for certain is that he's played by the wonderful character actor Barry Corbin, who also played Maurice Minnifield on my favourite TV show) hoping to relieve his conscience and perhaps discover some kind of insight, or even closure to the violence of not only the preceding days, but his entire life -- but all he ends up getting is a reminder that death stalks us all. The subtext shot through Ed Tom's dream was something I wrestled with a bit the first time I watched the movie, but it was strikingly apparent the second time around; Ed Tom realizes with a leaden conscience that his work is through, and his time is nearing its end. There's only so much a good man can do in a world that's indifferent and unbiased.

 

Weighty shit. I think this is by far the best performance of Tommy Lee Jones's career. I know people are rooting for Javier Bardem this awards season, but as solid as he was in this flick, I dearly hope Jones gets even more accolades. He certainly deserves the attention.

 

And while I haven't read the novel, I can't imagine it being more accessible than McCarthy's The Road, which is less read than mainlined.

[Kalle]

One of the best movies I have ever seen and reading this thread certainly made me understand it and appreciate it more.

[Good Old Neon]

For those interested, what follows is a link to a review of the novel, culled from Pop Matters. It does contain minor spoilers for both the film and novel.

 

Enjoy.

 

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/books/reviews...ormac-mccarthy/

[Guest David Puddy]

One of the best movies I have ever seen and reading this thread certainly made me understand it and appreciate it more.

 

QFT

[Kalle]

QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

[bjorn_skurj]

Oops. I thought that was "quite fucking true."

[cryptique]

Finally went and saw this today. Holy crap, that was great.

 

I love that immediately after telling Moss's wife that "I came from the same place the coin did," that is, from randomness/fate, he gets slammed by randomness/fate. I think that was another nice subversion of our expectations -- the genre tells us the bad guy will get caught by the actions of the good guy, when in fact for all we know, a piano could fall on his head in the next second.

Hodie, you beat me to it ... I was going to comment on the role of chance in the film, specifically with the coin tosses, Chigurh's wreck, and the event that kicked off the whole thing -- Moss stumbling upon the carnage in the desert.

 

As for the dream idea, I'm still thinking about that.

 

I haven't seen Atonement, but I can't believe it won the Golden Globe over this film.

[Beltmann]

I haven't seen Atonement, but I can't believe it won the Golden Globe over this film.

I liked Atonement plenty, but it's great in rather conventional ways... No Country's easily the greater achievement. Still, I can't get worked up about winners or losers, because I can't bring myself to view award shows as a reasonable way to discuss quality in cinema. I'm usually happy for the winning individuals--good for them!--and indifferent to everything else. After all, nobody remembers the awards, while historians and critics usually remember the movies that deserve to be remembered.

[Sir Stewart]

Sean Penn's The Pledge incorporates fate in a similar way to what's being discussed here. It's one that's stuck with me.

[yermom]

I love that immediately after telling Moss's wife that "I came from the same place the coin did," that is, from randomness/fate, he gets slammed by randomness/fate. I think that was another nice subversion of our expectations -- the genre tells us the bad guy will get caught by the actions of the good guy, when in fact for all we know, a piano could fall on his head in the next second.

This was a big stand-out point for me too. My enjoyment of the movie is, for the most part, hinged on the moment Javier speaks that line. Outstanding.

[Guest David Puddy]

Sean Penn's The Pledge incorporates fate in a similar way to what's being discussed here. It's one that's stuck with me.

 

glad to hear that someone else liked this movie. i know quite a few people that didn't. of course they didn't understand it, but nonetheless, they didn't like it.

[JerseyMike]

After seeing the movie I wondered:

 

Who is the real hero?

 

Moss, who was out to take money that was not his?

Ed Tom, who did not complete his job?

Chigurgh, who kept his word?

 

In todays fucked up world, Chigurgh was the only one who accomplished what he set out to do. I caould be way, way off base, but when I was walking out the theater, thats what I was contemplating.

 

BTW, I saw the movie at The Alamo Draft House in Austin. You Austinites are lucky SOBS. We have NOTHING like that here in NJ.

 

Also, I am a huge fan of Sean Penn's films. Many people complain that his films are "Slow" but I think he does a great job of translating the emotion of the characters onto the screen.

[Guest Golyadkin]

I think it was a story about a country not being for old men.

 

Chigurgh got away because the old guy - Ed Tom, could not keep up.

 

The story at the end explained it all, Sheriff was saying he can't keep up because the world is getting to violent, but the dude in the wheel chair told him that it has always been this violent, you are just getting old.

[Lynch]

I saw this last night and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Anton Chigurh is one of the best movie villains I have seen in a long time. He was terrifying!

I had to laugh so hard when Tommy Lee's character says "Well, okay. What do we circulate? Lookin' for a man who recently drunk milk?" His delivery on that line was priceless.

This film exceeded my high expectations. I want to see it again soon.