David Foster Wallace....

[quarter23cd]

It's hard to want to read a book that makes you feel intellectually inferior. I have come to the conclusion that I am not capable of reading and understanding Ulysses. I bought Gravity's rainbow but have not started it yet. Infinete Jest is the same thing.

 

I'm not so afraid of the work it will take to get through them, just afraid to find out I am not even capable of getting through them.

I will admit that I've yet to make it all the way through any of the titles mentioned above, and most likely at some point I have said the same thing about books that make you feel "intellectually inferior", although I think that sentiment misses the point.

 

In some ways I think I approach these kind of books the same way I would a jigsaw puzzle. It is simply a different kind of storytelling than reading, say, Stephen King, where everything happens in a linear pattern and the story is the thing. Frequently, the story is secondary to the method of telling it. The "difficulty" is that the mind is still trying to follow a conventional storyline that may or may not exist.

 

I love that quote a few posts up about fiction comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comfortable, because I've felt that way about my own writing sometimes. The "intellectually superior" stuff is largely BS. That attitude, imo, comes more from the people who latch onto things that are perceived to be difficult because it makes them appear smarter for liking it and claiming to understand it. Hell, I still don't fully understand The Sound and the Fury, let alone Gravity's Rainbow! But I still like them. Its kind of like a game. I read the books differently than I would a "regular" novel. Its not necessarily "superior"--just different enough to jolt you out of your "usual" way of reading.

 

I haven't written fiction in quite a while, but I have written at least a couple things that I guess would fall into a DFW-esque category (or at least a wannabe version of it). As I wrote them, I don't know that I felt they were necessarily "deeper" than anything else I've written, just different. I got a kick out of trying to piece them together and build them. Its just books, people.

[Good Old Neon]

I will admit that I've yet to make it all the way through any of the titles mentioned above, and most likely at some point I have said the same thing about books that make you feel "intellectually inferior", although I think that sentiment misses the point.

 

In some ways I think I approach these kind of books the same way I would a jigsaw puzzle. It is simply a different kind of storytelling than reading, say, Stephen King, where everything happens in a linear pattern and the story is the thing. Frequently, the story is secondary to the method of telling it. The "difficulty" is that the mind is still trying to follow a conventional storyline that may or may not exist.

 

I love that quote a few posts up about fiction comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comfortable, because I've felt that way about my own writing sometimes. The "intellectually superior" stuff is largely BS. That attitude, imo, comes more from the people who latch onto things that are perceived to be difficult because it makes them appear smarter for liking it and claiming to understand it. Hell, I still don't fully understand The Sound and the Fury, let alone Gravity's Rainbow! But I still like them. Its kind of like a game. I read the books differently than I would a "regular" novel. Its not necessarily "superior"--just different enough to jolt you out of your "usual" way of reading.

 

I haven't written fiction in quite a while, but I have written at least a couple things that I guess would fall into a DFW-esque category (or at least a wannabe version of it). As I wrote them, I don't know that I felt they were necessarily "deeper" than anything else I've written, just different. I got a kick out of trying to piece them together and build them. Its just books, people.

 

Well said.

 

Dave Eggers struck a similar note in his forward to the tenth anniversary edition of IJ:

 

In recent years, there have been a few literary dustups

[redpillbox]

Thanks for that link: Very good read...and I don't usually enjoy Eggers' writing.

[Moss]

I will admit that I've yet to make it all the way through any of the titles mentioned above, and most likely at some point I have said the same thing about books that make you feel "intellectually inferior", although I think that sentiment misses the point.

 

In some ways I think I approach these kind of books the same way I would a jigsaw puzzle. It is simply a different kind of storytelling than reading, say, Stephen King, where everything happens in a linear pattern and the story is the thing. Frequently, the story is secondary to the method of telling it. The "difficulty" is that the mind is still trying to follow a conventional storyline that may or may not exist.

 

I love that quote a few posts up about fiction comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comfortable, because I've felt that way about my own writing sometimes. The "intellectually superior" stuff is largely BS. That attitude, imo, comes more from the people who latch onto things that are perceived to be difficult because it makes them appear smarter for liking it and claiming to understand it. Hell, I still don't fully understand The Sound and the Fury, let alone Gravity's Rainbow! But I still like them. Its kind of like a game. I read the books differently than I would a "regular" novel. Its not necessarily "superior"--just different enough to jolt you out of your "usual" way of reading.

 

I haven't written fiction in quite a while, but I have written at least a couple things that I guess would fall into a DFW-esque category (or at least a wannabe version of it). As I wrote them, I don't know that I felt they were necessarily "deeper" than anything else I've written, just different. I got a kick out of trying to piece them together and build them. Its just books, people.

 

I knew I was going to get called on the "intellectually inferior" thing. I don't think it came across right though. I enjoy a complex read. The sound and the fury is one of my favorite books. I don't think an author writing a difficult book is trying to be "intellectually superior" or anything. My only point was that at the end of the day, when I hear someone say how much they enjoyed "Gravity's rainbow" and I read it and have no idea what the hell is even going on. It makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with me. I consider myself a reasonably smart person but I don't feel that way when I try to read certain books. I'm willing to put the work into a difficult book but not sure I could enjoy a book where I'm required to look up some obscure reference every other paragraph. Kind of ruins the immersive aspect for me. I'm certainly not saying Pynchon is an elitist show off or anything. Just wish I could read him and enjoy it like others seem to be able to do. It's kind of a relief to hear that many other people on the board (that appear very smart to me) also have issues with Gravity's Rainbow.

[bjorn_skurj]

Compare and contrast Pynchon with Vonnegut. I would argue that Vonnegut is far superior to Pynchon, because he is able to communicate more. much more than in any Pynchon I have ever read, in language pretty much anyone can understand. Pynchon is kind of like the Yngwie Malmsteen of literature - a lot of notes and technical skill, but ultimately not a great deal of heart.

[explodo]

Pynchon is kind of like the Yngwie Malmsteen of literature - a lot of notes and technical skill, but ultimately not a great deal of heart.

While I agree with you for the most part, I think it depends on what Pynchon you are reading. The Crying of Lot 49, for example, seemed to have most of what I need in a book. But yeah, Vonnegut is millions of times more universal.

[dagwave]

I'm about a third of the way through IJ. It's amazing, and I have some theories where it's going, none of which are probably correct.

 

The command and depth of language is impressive. Even the footnotes are incredibly detailed.

 

What a great talent, what an immense loss....

[quarter23cd]

I knew I was going to get called on the "intellectually inferior" thing. I don't think it came across right though. I enjoy a complex read. The sound and the fury is one of my favorite books. I don't think an author writing a difficult book is trying to be "intellectually superior" or anything. My only point was that at the end of the day, when I hear someone say how much they enjoyed "Gravity's rainbow" and I read it and have no idea what the hell is even going on. It makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with me. I consider myself a reasonably smart person but I don't feel that way when I try to read certain books. I'm willing to put the work into a difficult book but not sure I could enjoy a book where I'm required to look up some obscure reference every other paragraph. Kind of ruins the immersive aspect for me. I'm certainly not saying Pynchon is an elitist show off or anything. Just wish I could read him and enjoy it like others seem to be able to do. It's kind of a relief to hear that many other people on the board (that appear very smart to me) also have issues with Gravity's Rainbow.

Yeah, I had to call you on the "intellectually inferior" thing. Sorry. But I do know exactly what you mean. A lot of times, stuff like Pynchon--its just not what I'm looking for unless I am in a very specific mood. Its not a very "immersive" experience for me, except when it reaches the point where its just words and ideas whizzing past me and I can feel and appreciate them (which can be a cool thing, in itself)...but I generally don't retain much of it. And so when I go to move onto the next chapter, my mind is so trained that it is supposed to be building on whatever came before, that I feel like I should go back and re-read the first part so I understand it better...and, therefore, I never really get anywhere. It would be interesting to see if I could get through something like Gravity's Rainbow in exactly that manner--of just experiencing the ideas flying past without necessarily having to understand it all.

 

Another good example is the fact that I have yet to get past the first chapter of Don DeLillo's Underworld. Its like one gigantic runon sentence that goes all over the place and when I get to the end of it I go "Holy cow, that was amazing!" And then I put down the book and don't touch it again. (maybe it should have been a short story)

[Good Old Neon]

After a few financial setbacks, I was finally able to afford the Wallace tattoo I had been planning for quite a while. It (along with the rest of my arm) is still really swollen in the photo, so the lettering looks a little wonky in places.

 

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r61/jni...cefinished2.jpg

 

If you live in New England, and are interested and/or planning on having something applied, I couldn't recommend Witch City Ink in Salem, MA highly enough.

[yermom]

"This image has been moved or deleted." Which book is that from?

[Good Old Neon]

"This image has been moved or deleted." Which book is that from?

 

Whoops - not sure what happened there. Let's try this again.

 

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r61/jni...cefinished2.jpg

[bjorn_skurj]

Wow. Nice tat!

[Moss]

Whoops - not sure what happened there. Let's try this again.

 

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r61/jni...cefinished2.jpg

 

Oops, they mispelled raining! Just kidding, I'm sure you triple checked it before starting. Very cool and a good idea for a tattoo. I'm still tat-less because I can't think of anything I want enough yet.

[yermom]

Looks good, Joe!

[Guest Hollinger.]

Awesome ink, sir.

[Good Old Neon]

Thanks all

[uncool2pillow]

I may be up for this.

[dagwave]

i'm at page 667 (story) and 1052 (note #270)!!!

[Good Old Neon]

From The Onion:

 

Geek obsession: author David Foster Wallace

 

Why he

[MattZ]

I finished IJ in March and I am reading it again for infinitesummer. I am trying to ignore the scary parallels.

 

Anyone else reading it this summer? This infinitesummer.org site seems to be pretty well organized.

[Moss]

I finished IJ in March and I am reading it again for infinitesummer. I am trying to ignore the scary parallels.

 

Anyone else reading it this summer? This infinitesummer.org site seems to be pretty well organized.

 

Cool site but I'm already 1 day behind. I suppose if I buy it tomorrow I'm only 20 or so pages behind. I actually looked for the book the last 2 times I went to Borders and they did not have it. What is up with that?

[Good Old Neon]

The following (really fucking exciting, at least from where I’m sitting) information regarding the release of Wallace’s final, unfinished novel, The Pale King was posted on the Wallace-1 message board:

 

Mary Clemmey, Wallace's UK agent. She begins the extract by explaining how she sold the book at London Book Fair:

 

Because the pages of THE PALE KING are only now being edited we were only able to show 120 pages to editors at the Book Fair but on the basis of this the response was more powerful than any editorial response that I can remember for a work of fiction - "This is one of the greatest memorials to Foster Wallace I could imagine" ; "I have never seen Simon Prosser so excited about a book in the decade" [from the MD of a major publishing house]; "I read the 120 pages this morning and was completely blown away by them. THE PALE KING feels to me like the most important literary work of this century so far, even in its unfinished state. It is unbearably sad to think that the author came so close to achieving what he set out to do, but perhaps never realized how close he had got.

 

It is in a sense a book about everything that matters -- and everything falls within its scope. Nothing is taken for granted and at every level the book puts the greatest distance possible between itself and the clichéd and mundane. It is has the highest of ambitions not just in terms of style and subject but also moral compass and indeed humanity. Without meaning to sound hyperbolic, it is unarguably the work of a writer of genius. And for once that word seems apt and indeed unavoidable."

 

2010 cannot come soon enough.

[mpolak21]

The following (really fucking exciting, at least from where I’m sitting) information regarding the release of Wallace’s final, unfinished novel, The Pale King was posted on the Wallace-1 message board:

 

Mary Clemmey, Wallace's UK agent. She begins the extract by explaining how she sold the book at London Book Fair:

 

Because the pages of THE PALE KING are only now being edited we were only able to show 120 pages to editors at the Book Fair but on the basis of this the response was more powerful than any editorial response that I can remember for a work of fiction - "This is one of the greatest memorials to Foster Wallace I could imagine" ; "I have never seen Simon Prosser so excited about a book in the decade" [from the MD of a major publishing house]; "I read the 120 pages this morning and was completely blown away by them. THE PALE KING feels to me like the most important literary work of this century so far, even in its unfinished state. It is unbearably sad to think that the author came so close to achieving what he set out to do, but perhaps never realized how close he had got.

 

It is in a sense a book about everything that matters -- and everything falls within its scope. Nothing is taken for granted and at every level the book puts the greatest distance possible between itself and the clichéd and mundane. It is has the highest of ambitions not just in terms of style and subject but also moral compass and indeed humanity. Without meaning to sound hyperbolic, it is unarguably the work of a writer of genius. And for once that word seems apt and indeed unavoidable."

 

2010 cannot come soon enough.

 

Good God, that's exciting news.

 

--Mike

[anthony]

I finished IJ in March and I am reading it again for infinitesummer. I am trying to ignore the scary parallels.

 

Anyone else reading it this summer? This infinitesummer.org site seems to be pretty well organized.

 

IJ is next on my To Read list (not gonna follow the schedule, tho).

[merkattack]

2010 cannot come soon enough.

 

I completely agree. I'm reading Oblivion for the first time right now and I can't help but feel sad that after The Pale King we don't have more to look forward to. But it sounds like maybe TPK will be a nice, definitive full stop to this body of work and leave us sated.