Bob Dylan vs. Jeff Tweedy

[LouieB]

I think we are all completely fucking wrong, except for Louie who seems to be agreeing with everyone! I miss you dude, I told Allison about a dream I had where you and I were contestants on the Price is Right, but Bob Barker was still the host.........of course after I bet $500.00 you pulled the hall of shame move and went up to $501.00! Hope to see you soon.................................Louie B .........Come On Down!

I'm here...never left....I never really intended to come to St. Louis. One of these days, I am going to visit EVERYONE on this fucking board...so look fucking out..... I do Route 66 (55) so much I need to keep going and never come back....(all I have to do is find the time.)

 

Hey man....Jeff actually reads this tripe, so I am not going to dis him....comparing anyone to Dylan is absurd. Without Dylan there would be no Jeff Tweedy. Meanwhile I will never get to meet Bob Dylan (my hero), but Tweedy is a hero of mine too, and I have been lucky enough to speak to him a few times.

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

Without Dylan there would be no Jeff Tweedy. LouieB

 

I was hoping someone would point that out.

[LouieB]

I was hoping someone would point that out.

Always up to me to state the obvious....

 

LouieB

[junkiesmile]

Have you ever heard the story of the first time they met?

no.

[junkiesmile]

Without Dylan there would be no Jeff Tweedy

So who's the better songwriter, Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan?

[jmacomber68w]

Without Dylan there would be no Jeff Tweedy

 

To me the entire, "if x didnt exist there would never be y" argument can only really be a small piece of the puzzle. Recently I was talking to a friend of mine about the Band, personally I do not like them at all, one bit, but I respect that they have inspired other bands, this point is better for a "who is more important" question id say (either way i voted for dylan)

[Lammycat]

Without Dylan there would be no Jeff Tweedy.

 

LouieB

Not to be a contrarian, but I'm not sure I get this. Dylan obviously influenced a lot of song writers, but I believe folks would still be writing great tunes regardless if he were never in the picture. Folks who are accomplished artists have an innate sense for it. At least that's my take.

[owl]

I don't think there really is a contest here. Bob Dylan.

[bobbob1313]

Not to be a contrarian, but I'm not sure I get this. Dylan obviously influenced a lot of song writers, but I believe folks would still be writing great tunes regardless if he were never in the picture. Folks who are accomplished artists have an innate sense for it. At least that's my take.

 

I think there are hundreds of song writers out there who have or are writing songs as good as Dylan's best, but Dylan will always get the credit because he came first. Dylan is influential because he came first, but if it wasn't Dylan, it would've been someone else. Same with the Beatles. Their situations are unique because of their talents, yes, but also the time and culture they came out of.

[Atticus]

I am positive that if bob dylan had never been born, jeff tweedy would still exist, in the most literal sense.

 

Since I haven't read the whole thread, has anyone distinguished songwriting from lyric writing?

 

No one will best dylan's lyric composition, but I have to admit, out of the recorded libraries of both artists, there is only a small few of jeff's songs that I would skip. There are dozens if not a hundred dylan tunes that I can respect on a certain level, but don't find to be as complete "songs" as jeff has written.

 

Really doesn't matter. It's all about taste anyway.

 

What I want to know is which artist is better at weather

[Analogman]

Not to be a contrarian, but I'm not sure I get this. Dylan obviously influenced a lot of song writers, but I believe folks would still be writing great tunes regardless if he were never in the picture. Folks who are accomplished artists have an innate sense for it. At least that's my take.

 

I think Dylan started modern lyric writing as we know it today. Mick Jagger has a good line about this in a Rolling Stones documentary that I have - I can't recall the quote exactly - so I am not going to try and post it.

 

I don't think we would have what we have today without him. Plus, he fueled people who were trying to change the world - so there's that as well. I am not dissing Jeff in any way - I mean, that is why I was drawn to alt country and Wilco in the first place -the words. For me, it usually about the lyrics, and then the music next.

[Lammycat]

I think Dylan started modern lyric writing as we know it today. Mick Jagger has a good line about this in a Rolling Stones documentary that I have - I can't recall the quote exactly - so I am not going to try and post it.

 

I don't think we would have what we have today without him. Plus, he fueled people who were trying to change the world - so there's that as well. I am not dissing Jeff in any way - I mean, that is why I was drawn to alt country and Wilco in the first place -the words. For me, it usually about the lyrics, and then the music next.

I agree with his immense impact on song writing, I just think that great songs would still be being written had he not come along. If we can imagine what song writing would be if there were no Dylan we can also imagine what it'd be if there were someone comparable/ (better?!) than Dylan in his absence.

 

I do get you point, though.

[CortezTheKiller]

So who's the better songwriter, Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan?

Still Dylan. Those Communists can make you write some fucked up shit.

[Analogman]

I agree with his immense impact on song writing, I just think that great songs would still be being written had he not come along. If we can imagine what song writing would be if there were no Dylan we can also imagine what it'd be if there were someone comparable/ (better?!) than Dylan in his absence.

 

I do get you point, though.

 

Is that an episode of Quantum Leap?

 

I should have added that Mr. Dylan took the blues/country/rockabilly/Allen Ginsberg's poetry/French poetry/On The Road/Guthrie/etc. and created something new by combining those elements, along with his natural born talent.

[MattZ]

I should have added that Mr. Dylan took the blues/country/rockabilly/Allen Ginsberg's poetry/French poetry/On The Road/Guthrie/etc. and created something new by combining those elements, along with his natural born talent.

 

Exactly. It's not at all intuitive to me that someone, somewhere would have done that if Dylan hadn't. It's just as possible that he actually and literally did change the face of popular music.

[lamradio]

I think Dylan started modern lyric writing as we know it today.

 

I agree, and I was going to say that if it weren't for Dylan, there probably wouldn't be a Jeff Tweedy.. I mean, there would still be a Jeff Tweedy because he was born a musical genius, but I don't think he would sound the same.. If that makes sense..

[Lammycat]

Hey now: I agree that Dylan pioneered a form of song writing in a major way. He's his own genre, in fact.

 

But I still don't think that had Dylan not come along that song writing would have been so stagnant that Tweedy (and other noted song writers in the similar vein) would have been incapable of penning the majority of the songs he has.

[Moe_Syzlak]

The difference between a bad artist and a good one is: the bad artist seems to copy a great deal; the good one really does.

~ William Blake

[So Long]

Hey now: I agree that Dylan pioneered a form of song writing in a major way. He's his own genre, in fact.

 

But I still don't think that had Dylan not come along that song writing would have been so stagnant that Tweedy (and other noted song writers in the similar vein) would have been incapable of penning the majority of the songs he has.

 

but I'd say 60% of Bob Dylan's output is garbage...

 

for instance, he hasn't had a decent album in 12 years...yet every one that is released is considered an instant classic from the media...

[caliber66]

but I'd say 60% of Bob Dylan's output is garbage...

 

for instance, I haven't liked any of Bob's recent albums...yet other people have...

Fixed it for you.

[junkiesmile]

I agree, and I was going to say that if it weren't for Dylan, there probably wouldn't be a Jeff Tweedy.. I mean, there would still be a Jeff Tweedy because he was born a musical genius, but I don't think he would sound the same.. If that makes sense..

Exactly my point with Guthrie and Dylan. Everyone has influences, but you can't use the argument that Dylan is better than Tweedy because Dylan influenced Tweedy, just like you can't say Guthrie is better than Dylan because Guthrie influenced Dylan. It's what you do with your influences that matter.

 

 

Besides, I hear more Beatles than Dylan in Tweedy's music.

[W(TF)]

but I'd say 60% of Bob Dylan's output is garbage...

 

Uhh. Even if that were true (which it ain't), then Dylan's a .400 hitter with many thousands of at bats. He's the Ted Williams of songcraft.

 

Whatever.

 

I think Reservations is a better love song than She Belongs To Me. So blow me.

[Edie]

I don't think that anyone has come close to BD for sheer genius as well as longevity. He's like Michael Jordan -- incredibly talented beginning, who then matured into something even bigger than himself, then enjoyed a mellower afterglow. It's rather ridiculous to even try to compare Jeff (who's writing I love and respect, duh) to BD, IMHO.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

This whole argument falls along the lines of sports fans who try to determine who would win if, say the 1962 Packers played the 1985 Bears. Different times, different circumstances.

 

In defense of Bob, he pioneered lyrical approaches, use of imagery that he created from his range of influences (not limited to just listening to Woody. He has been able to reinvent himself, to create a depth of character within his songs, the styles of music he has explored -- more nuanced than, say, David Bowie's incarnations, or Lou Reed for that matter.

 

We can't possibly conjure how music would have remade itself without Dylan. One thing's for certain, Tweedy, Farrar and countless others drank from the same musical well -- going back to the Anthology of American Folk Music, leaning on the same blues artists, the same issues, the same American history and myths that the music embodies.

 

Frankly, we can't say Tweedy would even be a musician because the desire and dreams were based on the landscape that was remade from the turns of Dylan, of the Stones, the Pistols and PiL, one building upon the other to create the myths that drive people like Tweedy, us, before and after. He may never have gotten out of southern Illinois. He may have followed in his father's footsteps and been the life of the party and his stage may have been nothing more than the living room.

 

But then, Tweedy, first with Farrar, moved alternative music forward, made it possible for others to follow in their steps, to realize that performing and recording is within anyone's grasp with the need and drive to make it happen. He took facets and genres of music and made them approachable. He has "reinvented himself" a number of times. There are definitely parallels between the two.

 

In another age, we'll be waging the same debate with whomever follows in Tweedy's footsteps, before beginning to leave his/her own footprints.

 

 

 

Hey now: I agree that Dylan pioneered a form of song writing in a major way. He's his own genre, in fact.

 

But I still don't think that had Dylan not come along that song writing would have been so stagnant that Tweedy (and other noted song writers in the similar vein) would have been incapable of penning the majority of the songs he has.

[H.Stone]

Is that an episode of Quantum Leap?

 

Oh A-man, these are the little things I love about you.

 

 

Dylan + '62 Packers vs. Tweedy + '85 Bears?

 

DITKA.