uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Right, but the current system doesn't give free television and radio time. That's part of his point. I acknowledged the weaknesses in his rhetorical argument, but again I do think that a person can support public financing of elections without supporting the current public financing system if their reasons for wanting public financing are not addressed by this particular system.i can think of 255+ million reasons why it's better than public funding. with a broken system that was unable to be fixed by barack's 3 years of trying, there's always loopholes to be found and george soros on speed dial. barack's got no worries. i wonder if michelle's picked out the white house window treatments and room colors yet. We've already been told by barack even before he scored the nomination that the white house bowling alley will be replaced with a basketball court. you'd think after bowling a 37 he'd want to practice his bowling skills in private. this man has plans...big plans. mark your calendars and prepare to be amazed. i know i am. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, I should say I don't think it will because he's got a lot of followers who see no wrong in him, but I could see it as a way for the right to attack and attack hard, and it might hurt his image in the general population. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, I should say I don't think it will because he's got a lot of followers who see no wrong in him, but I could see it as a way for the right to attack and attack hard, and it might hurt his image in the general population. I agree with this. I think that it's definately an issue that can easily be thrown back at him, especially if the nuance is left out of the story (as it usually is). However, I'm not really sure that campaign financing is an issue that really sticks with the voters, plus the right can't come after him too hard on it, as McCain has some pretty big financing questions himself. But if it does have any traction, then yeah, this is an issue that can be framed pretty easily to hurt Obama to some degree. Ug, I'm pretty disappointed with Obama's statement on FISA today. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Keep in mind that general campaign financing (public or private) doesn't take effect until after each party's convention. However, Obama is free to spend the money he's raised so far until the Dem convention. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Obama's op-out timeline via Politico (and YouTube). More info from FactCheck.org More info on Barack's contributors. god i hate politicians...slimy bastards. Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Right, but the current system doesn't give free television and radio time. That's part of his point. I acknowledged the weaknesses in his rhetorical argument, but again I do think that a person can support public financing of elections without supporting the current public financing system if their reasons for wanting public financing are not addressed by this particular system.I kind of agree with this. If you consider:Most of his donations are under $100 (90% at one point), Come from the internet (88% at one point), Are from hundreds of thousands of people (maybe more?), many who have never given to a campaignDoesn't accept money from lobbyists, and by winning nomination forcing the DNC to do the same. Turning down the public money is the best choice, and more in line with the goals of campaign finance reform. He's not really going back on his word either because this is such an unprecedented situation. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 We've already been told by barack even before he scored the nomination that the white house bowling alley will be replaced with a basketball court. you'd think after bowling a 37 he'd want to practice his bowling skills in private. the bowling was truly pitiful. if he'll just forgo the ride on a tank, he stands a chance. i gotta say, if spiro agnew himself came back to life, decided to run, and got the citizenry sincerely interested and enthusiastic enough at this grassroots level to fund his campaign, i would have to give him a huge hand andserious consideration. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 More info on Barack's contributors. Strange conclusion that one comes up with... $250 Million Barack is opting out of public financing because John McCain has raised $1.6 million -- less than 2% of his campaign -- from lobbyists and PACs. hmm... Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 i can think of 255+ million reasons why it's better than public funding. with a broken system that was unable to be fixed by barack's 3 years of trying, there's always loopholes to be found and george soros on speed dial.What does George Soros have to do with public financing? If anything, Obama has discouraged his supporters from donating to 527s--which is the type of group that could benefit from a Soros. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 More info on Barack's contributors. god i hate politicians...slimy bastards.haven't had time yet to check all those out, but why should we take as objective anything patrick ruffini has to say about a non-republican, when he describes himself this way on a townhall website: "Patrick Ruffini is an online strategist dedicated to helping Republicans and conservatives achieve dominance in a networked era. He has seen American politics from every vantagepoint Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 If anything, Obama has discouraged his supporters from donating to 527s--which is the type of group that could benefit from a Soros.sure he has...sure he has... we all know barack is completely above board and completely without suspicion. he is a shining example of what a politician should aspire to be. the man is such an inspiration. flawless [gestures with his hand] "these are not the issues you should concern yourself with"- obama wan kenobi there are no issues here. Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Obama's not likely flawless, but you don't seem to have given him a fair chance in the matter from the start. Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Obama's not likely flawless, but you don't seem to have given him a fair chance in the matter from the start.No, UW is just superhuman and therefore immune to Obama's mind tricks, unlike we mere mortals. Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Well, I should say I don't think it will because he's got a lot of followers who see no wrong in him, but I could see it as a way for the right to attack and attack hard, and it might hurt his image in the general population.Perhaps. But we should not overestimate how much the average voter cares about the subject of election financing. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 No, UW is just superhuman and therefore immune to Obama's mind tricks, unlike we mere mortals. It sucks that because I plan on voting for him, I'm just a mere sheep. Baaaaaaa-rack Obaaaaaaaaaaa-ma. I wish I had a mind of my own! Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 No, UW is just superhuman and therefore immune to Obama's mind tricks, unlike we mere mortals.i'm just having fun Beltman. i have a hard time seeing stuff swept under the rug by the media regarding his Obama-ness. reminds me a lot of the pro-Bush reporting before the Iraq invasion. when are they gonna stop stroking this guy and get back to their journalistic integrity? after the election maybe? but they gotta make sure their guy gets in first. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 haven't had time yet to check all those out, but why should we take as objective anything patrick ruffini has to say about a non-republican, when he describes himself this way on a townhall website: "Patrick Ruffini is an online strategist dedicated to helping Republicans and conservatives achieve dominance in a networked era. He has seen American politics from every vantagepoint Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 It sucks that because I plan on voting for him, I'm just a mere sheep. Baaaaaaa-rack Obaaaaaaaaaaa-ma. I wish I had a mind of my own!Obama's so-called "cult of personality" is a right-wing talking point that is intended to serve as a distraction; if Obama can be reduced to a cartoon, and his supporters marginalized as unthinking, then it's easier to dismiss him and avoid having to answer the substance of his campaign. After all, sheep can't be taken seriously, so why bother engaging them in the first place? It's not much different than how the Bush Administration cartoonishly reduced terrorists to "evildoers" intent on attacking freedom itself, as opposed to thinking creatures angered by American imperialism. That way, America could keep things simple and jingoistic rather than engage in the tougher work of national self-examination and proper measurement of our enemy--two actions that might have helped us understand how to more effectively fight back Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Obama's so-called "cult of personality" is a right-wing talking point that is intended to serve as a distraction; if Obama can be reduced to a cartoon, and his supporters marginalized as unthinking, then it's easier to dismiss him and avoid having to answer the substance of his campaign. After all, sheep can't be taken seriously, so why bother engaging them in the first place?how could we not take this guy seriously? he's going to be the prez...i mean he's already got his own official seal and everything. he sure looks presidential to me...i'm starting to fall in love with him all over again...[snap out of it uw...snap out of it]....sooo dreamy.... Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 i'm just having fun Beltman. i have a hard time seeing stuff swept under the rug by the media regarding his Obama-ness. reminds me a lot of the pro-Bush reporting before the Iraq invasion. when are they gonna stop stroking this guy and get back to their journalistic integrity? after the election maybe? but they gotta make sure their guy gets in first.That's all fair, UW, but at this point isn't it more true of McCain? I can't believe the press hasn't hammered him, just pummeled him, over his endless flip-flopping and gaffes. I'm not convinced that the corporate media wants Obama more than their safe, old pal McCain. In terms of the smear campaign, the phrases "Reverend Wright" and "proud of my country" have been endlessly looped by the mainstream national press. But how many times have you heard the phrases "Keating Five" or "stole drugs from a nonprofit" on the national news? Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 how could we not take this guy seriously? he's going to be the prez...i mean he's already got his own official seal and everything.Vero Possumus! Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 That's all fair, UW, but at this point isn't it more true of McCain? I can't believe the press hasn't hammered him, just pummeled him, over his endless flip-flopping and gaffes. I'm not convinced that the corporate media wants Obama more than their safe, old pal McCain.obama looks much better on camera. come on, who the hell is gonna vote for gramps? you know how old people talking can make your eyes glaze over, mind wander...it's bad for tv ratings man...bad...very bad....plus, who is gonna want to do the mccain character on snl? seriously, where's the funny in that? no, obama is the choice of a new generation. sure he's void of substance, but he's hip, he's now, he's...better looking than that old guy... mccain is the fall guy, a non-threat to an obama candidacy. they couldn't have set up a bigger push-over than the maverick. especially since bob dole is too busy making viagra commercials. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 numbers don't lie do they? i thought at least numbers were non-partisan. you're kidding, right? (1) many numbers are ultimately given to us by people, very often by people with agendas -- they don't ride down to earth on some magic carpet from superiortotalfactland. (2) numbers can be presented without a context, often one purposefully ignored to suit the presenter. what is the context around what's his name's little list? for a more balanced way of looking at numbers, with a no-agenda context, check out the oil tool kit posted here a couple of days ago. those numbers didn't just appear on some biased guy's blog. those numbers were straight and unspun, not to mention educational. i had grown as disillusioned by bought democrats as i was disgusted by bought republicans in congress; but it turned out that one team was quite a bit less pretty than the other when it comes to being bought by oil. very interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 .plus, who is gonna want to do the mccain character on snl? seriously, where's the funny in that?wasn't mccain on snl? he was on something fairly recently, and he really was funny, i mean it. he was witty. granted, his appearance was very short, but it was witty. he surprised me. i've also seen him be very charming with jon stewart. Link to post Share on other sites
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