New Election 2008 thread

[sweetheart-mine]

Obama's so-called "cult of personality" is a right-wing talking point that is intended to serve as a distraction; if Obama can be reduced to a cartoon, and his supporters marginalized as unthinking, then it's easier to dismiss him and avoid having to answer the substance of his campaign. After all, sheep can't be taken seriously, so why bother engaging them in the first place?

 

It's not much different than how the Bush Administration cartoonishly reduced terrorists to "evildoers" intent on attacking freedom itself, as opposed to thinking creatures angered by American imperialism. That way, America could keep things simple and jingoistic rather than engage in the tougher work of national self-examination and proper measurement of our enemy--two actions that might have helped us understand how to more effectively fight back

amen. most eloquently said, and with more substance and perceptiveness than i've seen in any other post in this thread, certainly including my own. thank you.

[Edie]

Quickly back to the energy issue --

 

What we need is an effort to switch to alternate energy types of no less magnitude than what the effort was for the space race in the late 50s - early 60s, or what it would be for another world war. Only this would be the war on OIL.

[JUDE]

Quickly back to the energy issue --

 

What we need is an effort to switch to alternate energy types of no less magnitude than what the effort was for the space race in the late 50s - early 60s, or what it would be for another world war. Only this would be the war on OIL.

 

 

This is not directed at you directly per say, but this is just more rhetoric. What are the strategic avenues for winning this war on oil? What is the battle plan?

 

Solar power technology has not advanced to the point of being feasible on a large scale, nor has wind power. Hydro is quite efficient but has other adverse side effects, i.e. wildlife and topography. Corn based bio-fuels are grossly inefficient in Btu output and the energy costs associated with production.

[MattZ]

Ug, I'm pretty disappointed with Obama's statement on FISA today.

 

This is a much bigger deal to me than the campaign finance issues that are stealing the headlines. Damn.

[MrRain422]

Me too. I heard John Dean saying that, well, this bill does still leave room for criminal prosecution, possibly an accidental oversite by the bill's authors, and perhaps that that is why Obama is choosing political efficacy over principle on this matter. I've also heard speculation elsewhere that he is just planning on reversing this once he is president anyway, but I see no reason to believe that -- he's given no indication of this whatsoever and it sounds like wishful thinking on behalf of his supporters. This is a major disappointment on all levels.

[Gobias Industries]

This is not directed at you directly per say, but this is just more rhetoric. What are the strategic avenues for winning this war on oil? What is the battle plan?

 

Solar power technology has not advanced to the point of being feasible on a large scale, nor has wind power. Hydro is quite efficient but has other adverse side effects, i.e. wildlife and topography. Corn based bio-fuels are grossly inefficient in Btu output and the energy costs associated with production.

 

I think I mentioned it before, but fuel derived from sugar is supposedly very effective, as I'm near certain that the Brazilians are using it and still have pretty cheap gas prices. Of course, the only way to begin doing this is by removing the sugar subsidies, but that's probably not going to happen anytime soon...

[Good Old Neon]

Me too. I heard John Dean saying that, well, this bill does still leave room for criminal prosecution, possibly an accidental oversite by the bill's authors, and perhaps that that is why Obama is choosing political efficacy over principle on this matter. I've also heard speculation elsewhere that he is just planning on reversing this once he is president anyway, but I see no reason to believe that -- he's given no indication of this whatsoever and it sounds like wishful thinking on behalf of his supporters. This is a major disappointment on all levels.

 

It is beginning to appear as though Obama

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Since he made that speech, Obama has said he meant undivided in some other sense than everyone else means it. He says he just meant undivided by fences/barbed wire or something like that--not undivided in terms of Israeli/Palestine territory. Doesn't seem all that plausible that he wouldn't know what "undivided" would mean to his audience.

[uncle wilco]

Since he made that speech, Obama has said he meant undivided in some other sense than everyone else means it. He says he just meant undivided by fences/barbed wire or something like that--not undivided in terms of Israeli/Palestine territory. Doesn't seem all that plausible that he wouldn't know what "undivided" would mean to his audience.

is he misquoting himself again? geez.. if i had nothing else to do, keeping a list of his gaffes and mis-statements would keep me busy and bored as hell all at the same time.

[Tweedling]

Since he made that speech, Obama has said he meant undivided in some other sense than everyone else means it. He says he just meant undivided by fences/barbed wire or something like that--not undivided in terms of Israeli/Palestine territory. Doesn't seem all that plausible that he wouldn't know what "undivided" would mean to his audience.

 

Really?.........I mean, really? Come on now.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Really?.........I mean, really? Come on now.

Are you disagreeing that it "Doesn't seem all that plausible that he wouldn't know what "undivided" would mean to his audience"?

[Good Old Neon]

is he misquoting himself again? geez.. if i had nothing else to do, keeping a list of his gaffes and mis-statements would keep me busy and bored as hell all at the same time.

 

Haven

[Tweedling]

Are you disagreeing that it "Doesn't seem all that plausible that he wouldn't know what "undivided" would mean to his audience"?

This is what I have a hard time believing-

"Obama has said he meant undivided in some other sense than everyone else means it"

I'm not sure I would ever question how an audience may take what a candidate is "meaning". All they can go by is what he says.....or means to say......or some shit like that.

[uncle wilco]

Haven

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

This is what I have a hard time believing-

"Obama has said he meant undivided in some other sense than everyone else means it"

I'm not sure I would ever question how an audience may take what a candidate is "meaning". All they can go by is what he says.....or means to say......or some shit like that.

So you're saying you agree with my assessment?

[Good Old Neon]

so you're saying that barack isn't a new kind of politician after all? are the cracks finally starting to show now, or is everybody still lost in the cloud of all that hope/change b.s.?

 

all barack is providing is a new face for tired/failed policy propped up with great marketing and superior graphics.

 

he is high definition compared to regular tv, only it's still the same old crappy political programming that runs every election. he keeps pandering to whatever crowd he's speaking to and then perpetually back-tracking on what he's said. then he prefers to blame the crowd for not understanding the meaning rather than admitting he's talking out both sides of his mouth. typical politician.

 

it's douche vs. turd part 3 or 4...hell i've lost count by now.

 

I

[sweetheart-mine]

Me too. I heard John Dean saying that, well, this bill does still leave room for criminal prosecution, possibly an accidental oversite by the bill's authors, and perhaps that that is why Obama is choosing political efficacy over principle on this matter. I've also heard speculation elsewhere that he is just planning on reversing this once he is president anyway, but I see no reason to believe that -- he's given no indication of this whatsoever and it sounds like wishful thinking on behalf of his supporters. This is a major disappointment on all levels.

what are your own thoughts on why he's backing this bill? (i'm asking mr rain, but am interested too in the thoughts of anyone who isn't just drowning in scatological cynicism and sarcasm because apparently it must be fun, i guess.) i'm disappointed also, if i completely understand what it means! sometimes i wonder: not every single compromised principle by someone in government can be about money and ambition, and that's it, can it? every single one? or have they all been hauled aside since ww2 and had their lives seriously threatened by people more powerful than themselves every time it looks like someone is going to buck the system?

[uncle wilco]

I've also heard speculation elsewhere that he is just planning on reversing this once he is president anyway.

 

he's given no indication of this whatsoever and it sounds like wishful thinking on behalf of his supporters.

these kind of people are the sheep i've referred to.

 

not every single compromised principle by someone in government can be about money and ambition, and that's it, can it? every single one? or have they all been hauled aside since ww2 and had their lives seriously threatened by people more powerful than themselves every time it looks like someone is going to buck the system?

there has never been a politician unmarred by corruption to some degree.

 

why would "saint" barack be assumed to be any different?

[Tweedling]

So you're saying you agree with my assessment?

Damn! You may be right. I wasn't sure what you "meant".

[Beltmann]

how could we not take this guy seriously? he's going to be the prez...i mean he's already got his own official seal and everything.

Looks like Obama has already dropped the seal. I thought the seal was a tad obnoxious...

[uncle wilco]

Looks like Obama has already dropped the seal. I thought the seal was a tad obnoxious...

yeah, i read that too.

 

hopefully, they haven't already started painting his private jet to look like airforce one.

 

now that would really be obnoxious.

[sweetheart-mine]

these kind of people are the sheep i've referred to.

 

 

there has never been a politician unmarred by corruption to some degree.

 

why would "saint" barack be assumed to be any different?

well, like you say, there are degrees. in everything.

 

i've never known of a politician -- or any other person -- to be unmarred. the question was about whether every political compromise is for a corrupt reason. many seem to think so.

 

i don't recall anyone referring to obama as a "saint." it's just the folks who can't stand him (or, more likely, the idea of him) who label him, with oh so familiar sarcasm, a saint.

[sweetheart-mine]

Looks like Obama has already dropped the seal. I thought the seal was a tad obnoxious...

whew, that's a relief. was definitely not a fan of that seal.

[Beltmann]

i don't recall anyone referring to obama as a "saint." it's just the folks who can't stand him (or, more likely, the idea of him) who label him, with oh so familiar sarcasm, a saint.

"Saint Obama" is much like "Bitter Michelle" in that both are cartoon characters that exist nowhere but in the paranoid nightmares of Republicans. These visions have nothing to do with the real Obamas, of course, but when reality stands in the way of demonizing your opponent, it's always been politically convenient to believe the cartoon. When you buy into the myth, it's much easier to work yourself up into a lather and justify your irrational hatred. (The same thing is happening with "Addict Cindy," who I suspect bears zero resemblance to the real-life Cindy McCain.)

 

The irony is that the Obama "messiah" sarcasm is often mouthed by the same people who believe George W. Bush is God's agent.

[bjorn_skurj]

Let me ask everyone here - do you REALLY want someone as president who is and has been so certain of his own judgment and the principles he or she bases that upon that he or she never changes his or her mind on anything? In the Bjorn Book, if you are so stupid that you cannot change your mind based on new information and improved reasoning, then you are f unqualified to be an ice cream man (woman), much less president. Sheesh. We have a lot of shit bass-ackward in this society, yes we do.