Election thread

[Central Scrutinizer]

Agree 100%. I thought that, while her speech was great, it was very calculating in that it set her up as looking like she is doing all she can for party unity, but I felt she was also very purposefully choosing her words for a possible 2012 run. She talked about either Obama or McCain and on the issues, Obama is better than McCain. But she seemed to take credit for Obama's platform. Also, I never heard her emphatically endorsing Obama as a leader. She more said that his platform was more like hers than McCain's. I dunno, I thought it was a good speech, but she could have done more. I don't think it was the "high road" as much as some are making it out to be.

 

Oh and "Bush's War" on Frontline is must see TV.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this approach. She is never going to do enough, short of opening up her chest and giving up her heart as sacrifice. Why shouldn't she protect herself for 2012. It's up to Obama to make that a non-issue by being a convincing enough leader from 2008-2012. If she would have given in to those things you suggest, she would be dragged through the press, blog and water cooler talk today as giving in, being soft, or kicking her for groveling.

 

"talking about either Obama or McCain on the issues." HOW FREAKING REFRESHING!!!!

 

What can she speak of, in front of her party, in front of her supporters (who she gave a much more emphatic and detailed talk to at a luncheon earlier in the day about supporting Obama) but how the two candidates platforms compare to hers? What better endorsement than saying who you support more and why?

 

You can talk about "electable," "hope," "values," "change," whatever. But at the end of the day the winner has to do the job. Through this whole process I still say HRC was the most "presidential" of the candidates in 2008.

 

Let loose the slings and arrows ...

[Moe_Syzlak]

I'm sorry, I don't understand this approach. She is never going to do enough, short of opening up her chest and giving up her heart as sacrifice. Why shouldn't she protect herself for 2012. It's up to Obama to make that a non-issue by being a convincing enough leader from 2008-2012. If she would have given in to those things you suggest, she would be dragged through the press, blog and water cooler talk today as giving in, being soft, or kicking her for groveling.

 

"talking about either Obama or McCain on the issues." HOW FREAKING REFRESHING!!!!

 

What can she speak of, in front of her party, in front of her supporters (who she gave a much more emphatic and detailed talk to at a luncheon earlier in the day about supporting Obama) but how the two candidates platforms compare to hers? What better endorsement than saying who you support more and why?

 

You can talk about "electable," "hope," "values," "change," whatever. But at the end of the day the winner has to do the job. Through this whole process I still say HRC was the most "presidential" of the candidates in 2008.

 

Let loose the slings and arrows ...

I think you missed my point.

[fatheadfred]

Looking ahead to next week, which I will watch with equal passion as this week, the Republicans have some interesting sideshows going on. Rage will be there for what that is worth. More importantly, Ron Paul will be rocking out. I wonder if Jesse the Body, I mean Governor, will be there.

 

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Ron_Paul_pla...on_to_0610.html

Ron Paul planning parallel convention to send GOP a 'strong message' in MinneapolisNick Juliano

 

After being denied a speaking slot at the Republican convention this summer, former candidate Rep. Ron Paul, who is not supporting GOP nominee John McCain, has decided to stage his own parallel convention in Minneapolis.

 

"There is a growing surge of people out there just craving" for a return "to traditional American government, limited government that places personal liberty first and places an emphasis on personal responsibility and essentially gets out of the way after that," Paul spokesman Jesse Benton told the Pittsburgh Tribune Review. "The buzz we get from supporters is that they are very eager to come to St. Paul and very eager to send a strong message."

 

After being initially viewed as little more than a gadfly's revolt, Paul's campaign picked up substantial steam during the GOP primaries, when the libertarian leaning Texan raised about $35 million almost entirely online and garnered more than a million votes. Paul's secured at least 35 convention delegates, but Republican party big-wigs are denying him a speaking slot.

 

The Tribune-Review has the details on Paul's parallel convention:

 

Maverick GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul has booked an arena in Minneapolis for a "mini-convention" that could steal some of John McCain's thunder just days before he accepts the Republican nomination.

 

A Paul campaign aide said the Texas congressman hopes to pack about 11,000 supporters into the Williams Arena at the University of Minnesota on Sept. 2, which coincides with the second day of the Republican National Convention at the Xcel Energy Center in neighboring St. Paul.

Benton tells MSNBC that Paul's decision to hold his own convention is about more than just not getting a speaking slot at the GOP's main shindig.

 

Paul's supporters are really "looking to build a national organization that is going to run at a grassroots level, be organized at a precinct level, and to identify candidates to support," Benton said, "real constitutionalist candidates."

 

Paul camp expects to have about 50 delegates to the national convention. They will attend the Paul convention and the campaign is encouraging them to go to the official GOP convention as "active and positive." But, Benton added, Paul's supporters are independent-minded and aren't going to be told what to do.

There's some evidence that Paul's influence is beginning to stretch beyond the presidential race already. Libertarian magazine Reason recently profiled several "Ron Paul Republicans" who are seeking congressional seats in House races across the country this year.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I think you missed my point.

Then please help me see your point. It appears to me your point is she didn't do enough to satisfy you, or that you're in disagreement with others who are satisfied.

 

As a politician HRC did everything one would expect her to do for the party and for her own self preservation. What more would you want her to do?

 

Also, did you read any of the content of her speech at the luncheon with Obama's wife Monday?

[sweetheart-mine]

clinton's convention speech was better than i hoped for when it comes to trying to unify the party and getting her people behind obama as the democratic nominee. she deserves an A for effort on that and, as usual, her speech was strong and articulate. i've noticed ever since she stopped bashing obama during the primaries, though, that the message is only "elect obama" and not "obama has intelligence, x, and x and will be a terrific, x, and x president." she doesn't make the case for HIM; mostly she makes the case for the democratic-nominee-whoever-it-is.

 

i do appreciate that the speech will likely bring around at least some of her supporters to voting for obama. she continues to talk way too much about herself and her run, though, in my opinion. the time for that is over, and has been over for months. i hope she knocks it off for the rest of the campaign season.

[Sir Stewart]

clinton's convention speech was better than i hoped for when it comes to trying to unify the party and getting her people behind obama as the democratic nominee. she deserves an A for effort on that and, as usual, her speech was strong and articulate. i've noticed ever since she stopped bashing obama during the primaries, though, that the message is only "elect obama" and not "obama has intelligence, x, and x and will be a terrific, x, and x president." she doesn't make the case for HIM; mostly she makes the case for the democratic-nominee-whoever-it-is.

 

Interesting observation - I hadn't noticed/thought of that.

[Central Scrutinizer]

clinton's convention speech was better than i hoped for when it comes to trying to unify the party and getting her people behind obama as the democratic nominee. she deserves an A for effort on that and, as usual, her speech was strong and articulate. i've noticed ever since she stopped bashing obama during the primaries, though, that the message is only "elect obama" and not "obama has intelligence, x, and x and will be a terrific, x, and x president." she doesn't make the case for HIM; mostly she makes the case for the democratic-nominee-whoever-it-is.

 

i do appreciate that the speech will likely bring around at least some of her supporters to voting for obama. she continues to talk way too much about herself and her run, though, in my opinion. the time for that is over, and has been over for months. i hope she knocks it off for the rest of the campaign season.

I don't dispute that. But would you rather she completely go against everything she's said up to this point for the point of getting him elected? Then she would be blasted for lacking sincerity or going against what she's said (as opposed to Biden her time).

 

She is taking one for the team and she's standing up -- has been standing up -- and supporting his candidacy. She doesn't have to. Knocking her for style points is disingenuous.

 

A lot of these election threads tend to get ruled by hatred without context that IMHO is wrong whether it is partisan or bipartisan.

[EL the Famous]

i think there was plenty of context in his observation, even better articulated in sweetheart-mine's post. i have no 'hatred' towards her and i didn't read any in the original post in question...i just completely agree with it. if you really want to make a case for your supporters backing obama, emphaticaly tell them to give their delegate votes to him...i think she's stated they could do what they want w/ them.

[Central Scrutinizer]

i think there was plenty of context in his observation, even better articulated in sweetheart-mine's post. i have no 'hatred' towards her and i didn't read any in the original post in question...i just completely agree with it. if you really want to make a case for your supporters backing obama, emphaticaly tell them to give their delegate votes to him...i think she's stated they could do what they want w/ them.

I'm sorry I didn't read it that way, and am not sure I still do. But I will apologize and defer.

 

I would point out that the big speech was only one aspect of her stumping for Obama yesterday. Please follow up with her comments at the luncheon.

[Sir Stewart]

Please follow up with her comments at the luncheon.

We're having a luncheon?!

[Central Scrutinizer]

We're having a luncheon?!

Yesterday. No leftovers.

[EL the Famous]

will there be pie?

 

just to be clear, i'm not saying she isn't doing her part...i just agreed she could be doing it better.

[Central Scrutinizer]

will there be pie?

 

just to be clear, i'm not saying she isn't doing her part...i just agreed she could be doing it better.

 

Then I understand what you're saying. She could do it better but why, and at what cost? She is a calculating person but that isn't exactly a deficit in the political arena. But I also believe she's in a no win situation. Given this past primary, she could do worse than decide a career senator would be a pretty sweet gig and leave it at that.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...008.barackobama

[bjorn_skurj]

Frontline has actually updated this two or three times -- it was an hour in 2002. Yes they pull it all together, and it's not fuzzy logic but facts and concrete reporting. It may be part of the most recent one, or a separate Frontline, but it also beat up the media for how badly they handled the run-up -- other than Knight Ridder, whose staff on the borders of Washington was left to wonder if they weren't completely on an island because the mainstream media refused to report anything that was under their nose.

Both those shows are superb and should be required watching for every American.

[Sir Stewart]

Both those shows are superb and should be required watching for every American.

Yes.

[Analogman]

Coming soon to a bumper sticker near you:

 

No way, no how, no McCain

[bleedorange]

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

 

1. Open a new file in your computer.

 

2. Name it 'Barack Obama'.

 

3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.

 

4. Empty the Recycle Bin.

 

5. Your PC will ask you: 'Do you really want to get rid of 'Barack Obama?'

 

6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'

 

7. Feel better?

 

GOOD - Tomorrow we'll do Nancy Pelosi!

[EL the Famous]

if you really want to make a case for your supporters backing obama, emphaticaly tell them to give their delegate votes to him...i think she's stated they could do what they want w/ them.

 

Clinton releases delegates

By NEDRA PICKLER and DEVLIN BARRETT, Associated Press Writer

8 minutes ago

 

DENVER - In an emotional meeting leading up to the Democratic roll call of the states, Hillary Rodham Clinton released her convention delegates Wednesday to vote for certain presidential nominee Barack Obama.

 

i take back my 'she should do more' comment.

[fatheadfred]

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

 

1. Open a new file in your computer.

 

2. Name it 'Retardican'.

 

3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.

 

4. Empty the Recycle Bin.

 

5. Your PC will ask you: 'Do you really want to get rid of 'Retardicans'?'

 

6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'

 

7. Feel better?

 

GOOD - Tomorrow we'll do Retardican voters!

[Moe_Syzlak]

Coming soon to a bumper sticker near you:

 

No way, no how, no McCain

I like this one better...

 

[ShuckOwens]

Question: will Barry rock the Acropolis harder than Yanni?

Prediction: Nope.

[Analogman]

Dems choose Obama; Clinton joins in acclamation

 

By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent 7 minutes ago

 

DENVER - Barack Obama, claiming a prize never held by a black American, swept to the Democratic presidential nomination on Wednesday as thousands of national convention delegates stood and cheered his improbable triumph.

 

Former rival Hillary Rodham Clinton asked the convention delegates to make it unanimous "in the spirit of unity, with the goal of victory, and pant suits for all." And they did, with a roar.

 

Competing chants of "Obama" and "Yes we can" floated up from the convention floor as Obama's victory was sealed.

 

Obama was across town as the delegates he won in the primaries of winter and spring cast their votes. Aides left open the possibility that he would briefly visit the Pepsi Center to thank his supporters, a routine event at recent national conventions. His formal acceptance speech Thursday night was expected to draw a crowd of 75,000 at a nearby football stadium where an elaborate backdrop was under construction.

[viatroy]

Question: will Barry rock the Acropolis harder than Yanni?

 

 

I bet he rocks it harder than the Virginia Republican Convention did.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Coming soon to a bumper sticker near you:

 

No way, no how, no McCain

I hope so. That was a great line.