Mrs. Peel Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I was serious about the graphic-design-car-personality-off. I think it will be fun. Its not like you guys have anything better to do. You know, Pee, if you put half the time into designing your personality car as you have been researching--well, you'd be done by now and having a peanut butter sammich with your feet up and a fluffy cat in your lap purring. maybe getting a backrub from the old man. While watching tiVo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Instead, I've been watching Sixteen Candles and now I feel all fuzzy inside. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artifice Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I saw a loaded red prius for $31k @ carmax last week, next to a loaded navigator for $17k. Albeit, the Navigator was a year older, but do you have any idea how many miles you'd have to drive in the Prius to justify the price difference? We'll assume gas is $3.75/gal. A 2006 Lincoln Navigator gets about 14 MPG in mixed driving. A 2007 prius gets about 46 mpg in mixed driving. To drive 100,000 miles in the Navigator will cost you about: [(100k/14)*3.75]=$26,785.71 To drive 100,000 miles in the Prius will cost you about: [(100k/46)*$3.75]=$8,152.17 + $14,000 price difference = $22,152.17 Or a difference of about $4600. That sounds great, but keep in mind, that Navigator is a beast that seats 7 adults comfortably and can tow anything and haul most of what you own inside. Now, let's compare a 2006 Honda Accord (25mpg average in mixed driving). You can get an EX for about $17k too (so its fairly loaded). The cost to drive that accord 100k miles? [(100k/25)*$3.75] = $15,000 Or about $7,100 LESS than the very similarly sized and equipped Prius. And the Honda won't have battery issues afterwards (nothing that $75 at Pep Boys wont fix). I'm a big fan of reducing carbon footprints, alternative fuel technologies, and Toyotas too. I drive a 25 mpg 'yota, and my last car was a Toyota too. They are perhaps the best car company on the planet right now. But the Prius marketing is a bit deceptive. They are still too expensive for the ROI. Honestly, I think you come out better buying a year old 32 mpg Corolla, and your carbon footprint is still tiny. Put it this way: My wife bought a 2 year old loaded (leather, sunroof, cd changer, seat warmers, premium stereo) Jetta TDI a couple years back for about $11.5k. Why spend anymore? She legitimately gets 47.5 mpg in that thing. I kept a log on it for a year and that was the end number. $.02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 If I bought a Prius (or other hybrid) it would not be to save money. It would be to have more control over where my money goes. If, in the end, it costs an equal amount of money to buy and drive a Prius as it does a less expensive and less fuel efficient car, at least with the Prius I'd be giving a smaller chunk of money to the oil companies and a larger chunk to a company that is making efforts in the right direction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 so what if it costs more? and the economy continues its downward trend? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 so what if it costs more? and the economy continues its downward trend? In my case, a Prius probably would cost more, because I have two cheap, fuel efficient, payed-off cars (with very little trade in value). I'm hoping my next car will be electric. Hybrid MPG , frankly, is not that impressive to me since I've been getting close to 40 MPG in my $9,000 Hyundai Accent since 1999 (and I still only have approx. 60k miles on it). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 In my case, a Prius probably would cost more, because I have two cheap, fuel efficient, payed-off cars (with very little trade in value). I'm hoping my next car will be electric. Hybrid MPG , frankly, is not that impressive to me since I've been getting close to 40 MPG in my $9,000 Hyundai Accent since 1999 (and I still only have approx. 60k miles on it). Do you generate your own electricity or are you going to give your hard earned currency to the evil utility companies? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Do you generate your own electricity or are you going to give your hard earned currency to the evil utility companies? I don't think utility companies are evil. However, I would like to have solar panels on my roof. I might look into that. Then I would be generating (or harnessing) some of the energy I use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 I'm officially done with explaining the calculations and the reasons why I think it is a good choice. You can go back and read the rest of my posts for answers to most of the questions you posed, specifically relating to my decision making process. I don't want a fully loaded Prius Touring edition, which I'm assuming is what you saw for 31K. CarMax is crazy for charging that anyway. You can read the costs of the cars I have looked at, my reasoning beyond gas mileage for why I like the Prius, and the fact that I don't want to buy a used car, although I'm not necessarily averse to buying a 1 or 2 year old Prius, but the trouble is finding one that an owner was willing to part with, and the prices are almost the same as for a brand new one. You can read the linked info about the so called "battery issue" that I have yet to see any evidence of. You can also read that I said this is exactly why I didn't ask for people's opinions of hybrid technology, I asked for people's opinions of the Prius they own. I'm not trying to win a battle to prove why regular cars are evil and the Prius is the be all and end all in transportation. I get the feeling that some people will just argue against a hybrid because they think they know the facts when they don't. I'm not saying they're the most amazing things on the planet and everyone should burn in hell for not owning one. I had some of the same misconceptions that have been raised in this thread. That's why I asked for opinions in the first place. But I have subsequently done research to try and answer those questions. I've included it all in the thread. But no one seems to be responding to the answers I'm finding. I would actually like for someone to find conflicting evidence from a reputable source for me to compare to my findings. My main sticking point that I couldn't justify was that it's better for the environment to buy a used car than a new Prius. Then I found an article with figures illustrating that this is not necessarily the case. Also, there is the issue of resale value. There is a reason you can't find a used 2 year old Prius for much less than a new one costs. Because all of the issues that people bring up as reasons why the car is going to cost you a fortune in a few years just aren't accurate. Wouldn't you like to get an almost 100% return on your car if you decide to get a different one in a couple years? Why do people buy BMWs? Why do people buy SUVs that are larger than they'll ever need? Why do people drive Hummers? Why did you choose to buy a Toyota that only gets 25 mpg when you could have bought one that gets 35 mpg? Why are there not 6 billion of the same car on the roads? Personal preference. Why do I think I might spend a couple thousand more on a Prius instead of buying a Matrix (26/32 mpg but also still on my radar)? Personal preference. Oh, jff, you mentioned solar panels on the roof.....they're talking about that as a possibility for the 2010 Prius, so there you go. Right now, a fully electric car will have to be plugged in to recharge, thereby relying on fossil fuels to generate the electricity, unless you're running completely off the grid in your home, or your electric company uses wind and solar power exclusively. It would be awesome if they came out with a fully electric model that was completely charged by solar power, although you'd have to leave it parked in full sun most of the time. They'll be cutting down trees all over the country to make more direct sunlight! *GASP* FASTER GLOBAL WARMING!!! The Prius recharges its own electric battery as it drives. I honestly don't know how much the electricity from the grid would increase your carbon footprint, just pointing it out. I'll save that extensive research for when I could actually buy an electric car. I guess no one who reads the boards frequently has a Prius, so I'll have to find a different source for first hand experiences. There is a board devoted specifically to Prius owners. I have read a lot over there, but I do keep in mind that I may only be seeing one side of the coin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Oh, jff, you mentioned solar panels on the roof.....they're talking about that as a possibility for the 2010 Prius, so there you go. Right now, a fully electric car will have to be plugged in to recharge, thereby relying on fossil fuels to generate the electricity, unless you're running completely off the grid in your home, or your electric company uses wind and solar power exclusively. Unless I'm mistaken, the electricity in my part of the country is mostly derived from coal. We don't import our coal from the middle east. EDIT: My power company hopes to convert some of their coal plants to biomass plants, so an electric car would be even more environmentally friendly than I thought:http://bioenergy.checkbiotech.org/news/200...ant_to_biomass/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gogo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Oh, jff, you mentioned solar panels on the roof.....they're talking about that as a possibility for the 2010 Prius, so there you go. Right now, a fully electric car will have to be plugged in to recharge, thereby relying on fossil fuels to generate the electricity, unless you're running completely off the grid in your home, or your electric company uses wind and solar power exclusively. The Prius recharges its own electric battery as it drives. I honestly don't know how much the electricity from the grid would increase your carbon footprint, just pointing it out. I'll save that extensive research for when I could actually buy an electric car. Sorry Jen, this is completely off the topic, but: My sister's got solar panels, and even in her location in the foggiest neighborhood in San Francisco, she puts energy back into the grid. We're in the process of getting them now; in terms of money saved on electric bills vs. initial investment, it'll be quite some time before they "pay for themselves", but they're not really a bad deal. Also, a couple who live up the street from my mom have solar panels, and an electric car (they actually make a brief appearance in Who Killed the Electric Car?). I'd love to have that set-up, myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 If you people haven't seen "Who Killed The Electric Car" put it at the top of your netflix RIGHT NOW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 does anybody actually still use netflix? there's this new thing called a library. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 does anybody actually still use netflix? there's this new thing called a library.We, some of us have these wacky things called "jobs" and can't get to the library on a regular basis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Your library is likely open to 9:00 several days a week. Reduce your carbon footprintby flipping the bird to corporate america. Your tax dollars are already entitle you to much entertainment without shelling out more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 does anybody actually still use netflix? there's this new thing called a library. I use both. I love the library, but their dvd selection is significantly weaker than Netflix. I did get "Who Killed..." from the library, though, and was able to remove it from my Netflix queue. I love it when that happens...same thing happened this weekend with "Jesus Camp" (which I found surprisingly uncompelling). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 If you people haven't seen "Who Killed The Electric Car" put it at the top of your netflix RIGHT NOW.That movie sucked. I don't mean it was wrong or whatever, it was just poorly made film. Awful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Your library is likely open to 9:00 several days a week. Reduce your carbon footprintby flipping the bird to corporate america. Your tax dollars are already entitle you to much entertainment without shelling out more.Wait, so driving to my library to pick up a movie is less of a carbon foot print than having it delivered with my mail, by my mailman, who drives a hybrid mail truck (maybe even electric!) and is coming to my house anyway to deliver other mail? Do you own two homes now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 three, actually. I know netflix is corporate and we'll be a better country when corporate flames out, cause every last one of those fuckers would suck marrow from a baby's bones to show a better bottom line to their shareholders. plus all the yellow rat bastards in corporate drive fucking yellow hummers and buy town cars for their mistresses. my theory is no sense in paying for music or movies or books twice. they're all in the library system.we'll be a better country for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 no sense in paying for music or movies or books twice. they're all in the library system. I'll bet the library doesn't have Year of the Horse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I'll bet the library doesn't have Year of the Horse.The library will order pretty much anything you ask of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 why would it have a Chinese new year? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 The library will order pretty much anything you ask of them. It's out of print. Will they try to win it on ebay for me? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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