bjorn_skurj Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Dudes, what states do you live in? Here in New York, being a public school teacher is a pretty good gig. Not rockstar lawyer money, but better than the average. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Dudes, what states do you live in? Here in New York, being a public school teacher is a pretty good gig. Not rockstar lawyer money, but better than the average. We live in rural Missouri. I'm from Kansas City, home to some of the worst schools in the country! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 We live in rural Missouri. I'm from Kansas City, home to some of the worst schools in the country!My sister is re-relocating from New Mexico back to New York, in part because she is afraid my niece and nephew will grow up stupid if they go to school there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 My sister is re-relocating from New Mexico back to New York, in part because she is afraid my niece and nephew will grow up stupid if they go to school there. I know the feeling. Fortunately though, rural Missouri has some really good schools, it's the city that sucks. One fear I have for my child, is that it's all white. It's also very conservative Bible and Bush country. I'm sure to find myself in a fight or 2 when she gets older. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay rights, non-religious, organic loving, fast food hating, anti-vaccinations, liberal crunchy chick..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I know the feeling. Fortunately though, rural Missouri has some really good schools, it's the city that sucks. One fear I have for my child, is that it's all white. It's also very conservative Bible and Bush country. I'm sure to find myself in a fight or 2 when she gets older. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay rights, non-religious, organic loving, fast food hating, anti-vaccinations, liberal crunchy chick.....You should move to Ulster County. You'd fit riiiiiight in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 hey, don't forget that teachers and schools are also in charge of ending racism, treating family issues, identifying and treating mental health issues, teaching in unteachable circumstances, feeding hungry kids, and being the gatekeepers for child abuse and neglect. are you talking about all teachers, here? Or just the good ones? Because my beef is that bad teachers have a lock on their jobs, and good teachers end up going back to school to get library degrees because they can't break out of "long term sub" with no benefits, compliments of the teachers unions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I know the feeling. Fortunately though, rural Missouri has some really good schools, it's the city that sucks. One fear I have for my child, is that it's all white. It's also very conservative Bible and Bush country. I'm sure to find myself in a fight or 2 when she gets older. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay rights, non-religious, organic loving, fast food hating, anti-vaccinations, liberal crunchy chick.....You have legitimate concerns there. I stick out like a sore thumb here in Kornfield Kounty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 You have legitimate concerns there. I stick out like a sore thumb here in Kornfield Kounty.You should move to Ulster County. You'd fit riiiiiight in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Central Scrutinizer Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Dudes, what states do you live in? Here in New York, being a public school teacher is a pretty good gig. Not rockstar lawyer money, but better than the average.Oddly enough, when my wife and I first got married, we considered moving to Alaska for a while. Their teacher pay is top flight + housing. are you talking about all teachers, here? Or just the good ones? Because my beef is that bad teachers have a lock on their jobs, and good teachers end up going back to school to get library degrees because they can't break out of "long term sub" with no benefits, compliments of the teachers unions.Jobs are to be had, but you have to move -- we moved from Illinois to Florida for my wife to find work. You're right about bad teachers though. Like everything else about our contry, the system is set up to compensate the incompetent and incapacitate the competent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 You should move to Ulster County. You'd fit riiiiiight in. Is there an incentive? Perhaps, free stuff? And, is riiiiiight better than right? This Ulster County? http://www.ulstertourism.info/todo/wineries.html Ok, lots of Breweries and wineries..you sold me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 You have legitimate concerns there. I stick out like a sore thumb here in Kornfield Kounty. Luckily I don't stick out because we have our own land to hide on, and I never speak. Just kidding, there are a handful of people like me because of the University. Old professors, students that stay like myself, townies with gardens...etc. Also, I drive to Kansas city sometimes weekly to pick up some good vibes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Is there an incentive? Perhaps, free stuff? And, is riiiiiight better than right? This Ulster County? http://www.ulstertourism.info/todo/wineries.html Ok, lots of Breweries and wineries..you sold me.that's the one. don't forget to check out all the intelligent golf courses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'm pro-choice, pro-gay rights, non-religious, organic loving, fast food hating, anti-vaccinations, liberal crunchy chick..... Hey, me too. Well, except for those last two. Although, I have to admit to really liking Chick-Fil-A and Whataburger occasionally. And In-N-Out Burger when I'm on the west coast. (Of course, neither Whataburger nor In-N-Out are particularly fast.) How's that for bipartisanship. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Hey, me too. Well, except for those last two. Although, I have to admit to really liking Chick-Fil-A and Whataburger occasionally. And In-N-Out Burger when I'm on the west coast. (Of course, neither Whataburger nor In-N-Out are particularly fast.) How's that for bipartisanship.Bipartisanship is swell. If Ron Paul were running he would have my vote. What is Chick-Fil-A? I think we have those here in MO. Organic?I eat meat @ chipolte, and some places with quality meat. I'm not a complete resturaunt snob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Fortunately though, rural Missouri has some really good schools, it's the city that sucks. One fear I have for my child, is that it's all white.I can understand that. We just moved from the NY/CT area of the northeast back to the midwest--living in Delaware County, OH, just outside of Columbus. The schools are great, but, yeah, its about as white as you get in the area where we are. Which, in itself, isn't a problem except that my oldest daughter came home after her second day of kindergarten and dropped a vaguely racist comment at the dinner table while we were asking her about her classmates. It was pretty clear she was repeating something she'd heard at school, and it just completely blew my mind. Two days of kindergarten... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I can understand that. We just moved from the NY/CT area of the northeast back to the midwest--living in Delaware County, OH, just outside of Columbus. The schools are great, but, yeah, its about as white as you get in the area where we are. Which, in itself, isn't a problem except that my oldest daughter came home after her second day of kindergarten and dropped a vaguely racist comment at the dinner table while we were asking her about her classmates. It was pretty clear she was repeating something she'd heard at school, and it just completely blew my mind. Two days of kindergarten... Ugh..I hear ya. Don't get me wrong, I love white people and all, but not the racist folks. I guess I am blind to how much of that happens around here because I don't have neighbors, and I work & hang in the next town, but I'm sure to find out as Olly gets older. I just want her to experince lots of diffent types of peope and families, and their views. She will, just not @ school. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 are you talking about all teachers, here? Or just the good ones? Because my beef is that bad teachers have a lock on their jobs, and good teachers end up going back to school to get library degrees because they can't break out of "long term sub" with no benefits, compliments of the teachers unions. As a person who is in their 23rd year of teaching high school, I feel qualified to speak to this issue. It is true, in my district at least (but I assume that it is quite true most places because my district has a WEAK union), that 'bad' teachers stay in their jobs as long as they like. The only easy way to fire someone is if they commit a clear contract violation. Basically this means doing something illegal and/or immoral. To fire a teacher for 'poor teaching' very rarely happens because it needs to be properly documented, which is very time consuming for an administrator. There is also a long and drawn out due process procedure. Everything has to be proven, which can be difficult if not documented completely. It is easier to make the person's life difficult in the hopes that they will transfer. It isn't like a private industry job where the 'boss' has the power to simply say, "You're gone and here's why". The school board ultimately makes the decision. In my opinion, the principal should have more control. Of course, an administrator can also be incompetent or a teacher will say, "it is a personal grievance the principal has with me". The only solution is to only hire competent administrators that are able to properly judgethe work of their employees. In short, there is no real solution except higher pay and better benefits for all in the education profession. That will attract quality that can be held to a high standard. Sadly, some administrators aren't going to bother trying to remove someone because a 'warm body' in the classroom may be preferable to an even less qualified substitute, who in my district only need to be 18 with a diploma or GED because they are barely paid above minimum wage. High pay would also eliminate teacher shortages. Anyone against vastly increasing money for public education doesn't understand the reality. To be clear before others weigh in: I am in favor of much higher pay to insure quality but also in favor of higher standards and the ability to reasonably eliminate poor quality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theashtraysays Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 The only solution is to only hire competent administrators that are able to properly judge the work of their employees.Good post - it's easy to poke holes but harder to find real answers. And congratulations on 23 years of teaching... I'm curious how you all have dealt with the issue of hiring principals there in FL. Here in KY (not an education mecca, to be sure) we have implement School-Based councils at each school which consist of the principal, 3-4 teachers, and 2 parents. When there is a principal vacancy at the school, the council (sans principal, obviously) interview and decide. Obviously, there are more teachers than parents on that, so it's essentially up to the teachers on the council who have the majority. I've been one of the parents on that council during the selection process, and I found it a little weird that the teachers essentially pick their new boss. If the council happens to be loaded with "not so great" teachers at the time, you're not exactly going to get a hard-driving / effective principal. I understand the wisdom of the school-based councils for accountability and all that, but this part always seemed to be a flaw to me. How do the FL schools deal with that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Thank you for the congrats. I truly enjoy it. I know people with more years than I that do not enjoy it. How they keep it up, is beyond me... To address your question: That is a very interesting method of hiring principals. There is nothing remotely like that here. The school board does the actual appointment based on the recommendation of the superintendent. Sometimes it works, my current principal and the one prior, and sometimes it doesn't, most of the rest! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theashtraysays Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 That is a very interesting method of hiring principals. indeed... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
myboyblue Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 The Democrat and Republican candidates that we have running in this election are far superior to the dipshits we had running in the last election. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 The Democrat and Republican candidates that we have running in this election are far superior to the dipshits we had running in the last election.Amen to that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Central Scrutinizer Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 The Democrat and Republican candidates that we have running in this election are far superior to the dipshits we had running in the last election.Actually "dipshit" would be an upgrade from the 2004 Republican VP candidate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Ugh..I hear ya. Don't get me wrong, I love white people and all, but not the racist folks. I guess I am blind to how much of that happens around here because I don't have neighbors, and I work & hang in the next town, but I'm sure to find out as Olly gets older. I just want her to experince lots of diffent types of peope and families, and their views. She will, just not @ school. One of the reasons I love the public school my son goes to here in Chicago is because there are supposedly more than 20 languages spoken at home by families. I say "supposedly" since that is what I heard and I have not actually counted myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Is there an incentive? Perhaps, free stuff? And, is riiiiiight better than right? This Ulster County? http://www.ulstertourism.info/todo/wineries.html Ok, lots of Breweries and wineries..you sold me.Maybe if you start a massage therapy factory you can get an industrial development grant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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