viatroy Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 This calls up an interesting question I have discussed at length with friends and lovers: What is the cut-off for middle class? I have taken a hip shot at between 40,000 and 120,000 a year but I don't know why I like those numbers. Probably because I see my parents as middle class and they each had a salary in the lower half of that range. I have only really hit the work force full time for the past half-a-decade and most years, my tax return indicates I am below the poverty line. Which is odd, because without children and paying cheap rent, I live comfortably enough. This can be a rough discussion, but do weigh in. I want to collect some opinions. I've always considered myself solidly middle class, but am below your poverty line. While it wasn't easy -- esp. solo w/three kids -- I feel I've lived a damned privileged and comfortable life. Which is why I'm mystified by the protections of the rich ... how much fucking money does anyone really need?!? Comparing tax rates is apples and oranges. If I pay a 10% tax rate, my ability to make ends meet is seriously constrained. If a millionaire (just for the sake of argument) pays 30% (or even 50%) -- is that going to put a hurt on them? Not by my standards. This whole economic disaster seems to have a pretty easy solution. The money has trickled up, obviously given the obscene wealth it's created at the very top along with joblessness, foreclosures, "middle class" families at the food pantry, people using credit to buy groceries and gas. The money needs to return to the system from whence it came. I think it's time to eat the rich. (Cue Jude/Jules 08) Link to post Share on other sites
viatroy Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 johnny! I've thinking about you! Link to post Share on other sites
j4lackey Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Not to get too political, but I was just talking about you with some friends last night! When you coming back through KY? Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I've always considered myself solidly middle class, but am below your poverty line. While it wasn't easy -- esp. solo w/three kids -- I feel I've lived a damned privileged and comfortable life. Which is why I'm mystified by the protections of the rich ... how much fucking money does anyone really need?!? Comparing tax rates is apples and oranges. If I pay a 10% tax rate, my ability to make ends meet is seriously constrained. If a millionaire (just for the sake of argument) pays 30% (or even 50%) -- is that going to put a hurt on them? Not by my standards. This whole economic disaster seems to have a pretty easy solution. The money has trickled up, obviously given the obscene wealth it's created at the very top along with joblessness, foreclosures, "middle class" families at the food pantry, people using credit to buy groceries and gas. The money needs to return to the system from whence it came. I think it's time to eat the rich. (Cue Jude/Jules 08)Tracy, did you hear Bernie Sanders during the bailout debate? His amendment was basically 'eat the rich'. He is a goddamn hero in my book. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 David Crosby and Graham Nash will perform at Music for Democracy Link to post Share on other sites
viatroy Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Not to get too political, but I was just talking about you with some friends last night! When you coming back through KY? lucky! I dunno .... I'm job hunting, so not soon. Maybe I'll drag Aman along next time! Tracy, did you hear Bernie Sanders during the bailout debate? His amendment was basically 'eat the rich'. He is a goddamn hero in my book. I did, and he made quite the convincing argument. At least the people of VT are well represented. Link to post Share on other sites
ikol Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I think it's time to eat the rich. (Cue Jude/Jules 08) Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Man, Sting looks awful these days. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Hey man, I make sacrifices so I can drink good beer. Kool-Aid and peanut butter and jelly sammiches during the day, Sierra Nevadas or Red Hook IPAs at night. You have to have your priorities in line. I'm with you on that, no matter how poor I find myself, the lowest I will go on the beer totem pole is Boulevard Pale Ale. Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I'm so lost. I may just hide in the mountains til december. Every media I see seems so slanted, I don't feel like I actually know any of these four people--truly. I certainly haven't heard much in the way of real plans for the future, but what's new? Viatroy, I'm sorry if I got hot under the collar the other night, I've got other baggage that probably fueled me in the wrong direction that evening, and the debate was the breaking point. Everyone please keep the info fueling in--i feel like I find more genuine news here than any trash on tv... Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I've always wondered what middle class was as well. In Colorado, we were poor, but it was hippey cool because we had fun stuff to do like playing in the Rocky Mountains along side the yuppies. Here in MO, I think we have moved up to somewhere in lower middle class. Two paid off Subaru Outbacks, home with solar power that was built by my husband thru family loans, no gas or H2O Bills, decent afforadable property tax, average inflated student loans, jobs as a small business owner in massage therapy & academic advisor & instructor @ the University level, crappy health care, one child, land owners from land passed down...etc. Take away our jobs for a few months, throw in a healthcare crisis, housefire etc..we are screwed. But, unlike some people, we can fall back on our middle class parents who have their lives invested in their homes and land to bail us out of just about anything. The poor usually have no where to turn. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 This calls up an interesting question I have discussed at length with friends and lovers: What is the cut-off for middle class? I have taken a hip shot at between 40,000 and 120,000 a year but I don't know why I like those numbers. Probably because I see my parents as middle class and they each had a salary in the lower half of that range. I have only really hit the work force full time for the past half-a-decade and most years, my tax return indicates I am below the poverty line. Which is odd, because without children and paying cheap rent, I live comfortably enough. This can be a rough discussion, but do weigh in. I want to collect some opinions. I think it is locational too. $25 - $30 will have you living on a level realtive to what $50 - $60k might get you in the chicago suburbs. On a side note those very harsh conservatives I know...some of them are not going to vote they are so disgusted with McCain AND Palin. Additionally re: the bail out. Within a few hours of it passing I was working on a project to determine the benfits that will accrue to my company if we do certain transactions. We are not a financial firm and have no interests in the bad mortgage industry. So there are going to be massive benefits to lots of companies that the original intent of the bill was not intending to serve. Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I'm job hunting, so not soon. Maybe I'll drag Aman along next time!Well if that's the case then you two must come to Indy as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Well if that's the case then you two must come to Indy as well. Goin' Back to Indiana Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Caliber and I are definitely very lower middle class. I think what "creates" the moniker are a lot of things other than money, like maybe education, and opportunities? I have always thought that as an adult i was solidly middle class (because I have a college degree and I'm a white woman with many opportunities afforded to me), but the truth is we don't make the median family income here, and we eeked just above it in Providence. Folks forget that "affordable housing" is for people not who are necessarily on welfare, but who generally work for peanuts, like teachers, firefighters, cops, self-employed peeps, folks who work in non-profit and universities and hospitals and the like. There is often a backlash against developments with affordable components, until someone like me says "Hey, dudes, I qualify for affordable housing." Then they look all sheepish. but anyway, today's adventure in red state is that the house on the corner of the street off our street have a HUGE obama sign. Almost billboard sized. They have a corner lot, and when we came home from running errands today it was right on the corner, but when we went out again it was down, and then later it was against the bushes of their house right under their living room windows. We waved at them. They waved back. Then i finally put my obama sticker on my car. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Me & Fatheadfred have been driving all over MO & into KS checking out who has what sign(s) up. Gas is down to $2.99 now, so what the hell. Kansas...all McCain. In MO it seems to us the really boring standard conservative rich houses sport oversized McCain signs, the moderately interesting rich who have homes with character & unique lanscaping, like the bowling ball theme, dress their yards with smaller Obama signs, and the rest of us seem to like Obama except for the occasional McCain sign. Even in the country where I live, lots of O/B signs. Older neighborhoods seem to get Obama, while newer subdivisions float towards McCain. Haven't figured this one out. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Me & Fatheadfred have been driving all over MO & into KS checking out who has what sign(s) up. Gas is down to $2.99 now, so what the hell. Kansas...all McCain. In MO it seems to us the really boring standard conservative rich houses sport oversized McCain signs, the moderately interesting rich who have homes with character & unique lanscaping, like the bowling ball theme, dress their yards with smaller Obama signs, and the rest of us seem to like Obama except for the occasional McCain sign. Even in the country where I live, lots of O/B signs. Older neighborhoods seem to get Obama, while newer subdivisions float towards McCain. Haven't figured this one out. Maybe we can use your compound as a staging area next July 14th. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Maybe we can use your compound as a staging area next July 14th. I like that word compound . I'm sorta feeling that kind of lifestlye might be in order. I wish I had gone to Hollywood instead of college so I could afford such a life. Link to post Share on other sites
viatroy Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 I'm so lost. I may just hide in the mountains til december. Every media I see seems so slanted, I don't feel like I actually know any of these four people--truly. I certainly haven't heard much in the way of real plans for the future, but what's new? Viatroy, I'm sorry if I got hot under the collar the other night, I've got other baggage that probably fueled me in the wrong direction that evening, and the debate was the breaking point. Everyone please keep the info fueling in--i feel like I find more genuine news here than any trash on tv... Don't sweat it; I didn't. Alot of fed-up lefties are in the mad-as-hell-and-not-gonna-take-it-anymore mode. What's July 14th? I like that word compound . I'm sorta feeling that kind of lifestlye might be in order. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Don't sweat it; I didn't. Alot of fed-up lefties are in the mad-as-hell-and-not-gonna-take-it-anymore mode. After seeing Palin spew some news sources & Supreme Court decisons on tv yesterday..I got real pissed off. Is America gonna buy that shit? Debate camp? WTF? Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Maybe we can use your compound as a staging area next July 14th. Your always welcome. What's going on that day? We have enough room for about 500 tents (little ones) and 30 johnny on the spots if any band wants to hang. I also have a swell hammock. Lots of good things have happened there Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Le quatorze Julliet! Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Bastille Day! Zut allors! Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Don't sweat it; I didn't. Alot of fed-up lefties are in the mad-as-hell-and-not-gonna-take-it-anymore mode. What's July 14th? Bastille Day Link to post Share on other sites
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