Is the Compact Disk (CD) Dead?

[nodep5]

David Fricke on the IATTBYH documentary said it best when he called the CD a "dopey disk". In my opinion, vinyl records and the associated artwork are the only music related artifact worth getting worked up about. I buy 90% of all new music on vinyl, especially with the free download coupons that most labels offer. If the CD goes away, I will lose little to no sleep.

[MattZ]

It's bizarre that the music industry evolved in such a way that you had been forced to purchase an LP of a band without the benefit of actually getting to hear it to see if you'd like it. Sure, maybe you'd hear a song on the radio. But I can't think of many other things (certainly not in the art realm) where you don't get an opportunity to experience the art in some form before deciding whether you wanted to buy it.

 

I dont say this to defend illegal downloading. But it would be nice (and I think fair) if there was a way to allow people to download music for free and maybe have it automatically expire in a certain amount of time (say, 48 hours?), with an option to buy. I'd think this would benefit everyone -- the consumers would be happy to buy more because they'd be more confident in their purchases. And I think that artists would benefit by having more people take a chance on their music (for free) and maybe more people ending up buying.

 

Hey Payroll Peter - it sounds like you've been burned by illegal downloaders. What do you think?

[nodep5]

It's bizarre that the music industry evolved in such a way that you had been forced to purchase an LP of a band without the benefit of actually getting to hear it to see if you'd like it. Sure, maybe you'd hear a song on the radio. But I can't think of many other things (certainly not in the art realm) where you don't get an opportunity to experience the art in some form before deciding whether you wanted to buy it.

 

I dont say this to defend illegal downloading. But it would be nice (and I think fair) if there was a way to allow people to download music for free and maybe have it automatically expire in a certain amount of time (say, 48 hours?), with an option to buy. I'd think this would benefit everyone -- the consumers would be happy to buy more because they'd be more confident in their purchases. And I think that artists would benefit by having more people take a chance on their music (for free) and maybe more people ending up buying.

 

Hey Payroll Peter - it sounds like you've been burned by illegal downloaders. What do you think?

 

Brilliant!

[cgoodwin22]

There are times being old is a good thing....I remember when LPs (and 45s) were the only way you could buy music (pretty much.) Meanwhile I just went out yesterday and bought 13 Edison disks for a friend that looked in really good shape. Talk about slabs of vinyl....these fuckers can withstand a nuclear blast.....of course you have to have exactly the right kind of player since Edision didn't put out standard 10 inch 78s. Generally they were played on wind-up machines since much of America didn't have electricity when they came out. That was the ultimate friendly technology, but of course you still couldn't jog with a big old wooden record player, but then again no one HAD to jog because they worked their asses off rather than sitting in cubicles and shit. But they are the same technology as an LP. (Later I will post up what the titles and artists are....one was Ernest Stoneman....)

 

LouieB

 

Do they have "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" on edison disc???!!!

[LouieB]

Do they have "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" on edison disc???!!!

That would be cool wouldn't it?? Totally accoustic.

 

Strangely I was going to reply to some of the above posts about the digital download in the LP issue. This is a nice thing, but if you go too far outside the indie rock ghetto I don't believe this is being offered. Many kinds of music are simply not available on LP and some LPs don't come with downloads. Once again, for awhile this is going to be a feature of music buying, but after awhile, not so much.

 

LouieB

[Rusty Shackleford]

It's bizarre that the music industry evolved in such a way that you had been forced to purchase an LP of a band without the benefit of actually getting to hear it to see if you'd like it. Sure, maybe you'd hear a song on the radio. But I can't think of many other things (certainly not in the art realm) where you don't get an opportunity to experience the art in some form before deciding whether you wanted to buy it.

 

I dont say this to defend illegal downloading. But it would be nice (and I think fair) if there was a way to allow people to download music for free and maybe have it automatically expire in a certain amount of time (say, 48 hours?), with an option to buy. I'd think this would benefit everyone -- the consumers would be happy to buy more because they'd be more confident in their purchases. And I think that artists would benefit by having more people take a chance on their music (for free) and maybe more people ending up buying.

 

Hey Payroll Peter - it sounds like you've been burned by illegal downloaders. What do you think?

 

Well, people pay to see movies they've never seen before, and movies are not cheap these days, but I take your point. I'm with you in theory, because it's good to try out music before buying it. Most bands stream several songs on their myspace pages (which is the only reason I ever go to myspace), so even though you're limited to the songs they choose, and your listening environment is limited to an internet-capable device, there are legal ways to listen before buying.

 

I also listen to live shows from archive.org or DIME to see if I like a band before committing to a purchase, which isn't the same as hearing the records themselves, but it's something.

[cgoodwin22]

Well, people pay to see movies they've never seen before, and movies are not cheap these days, but I take your point. I'm with you in theory, because it's good to try out music before buying it. Most bands stream several songs on their myspace pages (which is the only reason I ever go to myspace), so even though you're limited to the songs they choose, and your listening environment is limited to an internet-capable device, there are legal ways to listen before buying.

 

I also listen to live shows from archive.org or DIME to see if I like a band before committing to a purchase, which isn't the same as hearing the records themselves, but it's something.

 

Yep. I do the same thing in regards to downloading from archive and dime to hear a band before buying the CD. I actually just DL'ed a radio performance from the band The Drones from dime yesterday because i've been reading a lot of good things about this band. Haven't listened to it yet though.

[sureshot]

It's bizarre that the music industry evolved in such a way that you had been forced to purchase an LP of a band without the benefit of actually getting to hear it to see if you'd like it. Sure, maybe you'd hear a song on the radio. But I can't think of many other things (certainly not in the art realm) where you don't get an opportunity to experience the art in some form before deciding whether you wanted to buy it.

 

I dont say this to defend illegal downloading. But it would be nice (and I think fair) if there was a way to allow people to download music for free and maybe have it automatically expire in a certain amount of time (say, 48 hours?), with an option to buy. I'd think this would benefit everyone -- the consumers would be happy to buy more because they'd be more confident in their purchases. And I think that artists would benefit by having more people take a chance on their music (for free) and maybe more people ending up buying.

 

Hey Payroll Peter - it sounds like you've been burned by illegal downloaders. What do you think?

 

Well, you can sample stuff on Myspace (which most bands have), or via their own individual websites. Also, Pitchfork now allows you to stream in entirety every album they review

[Analogman]

Amazon, Rhapsody, and others go the variable pricing way

 

Wed Apr 8, 2009 9:34AM EDT

 

Thought you could avoid paying $1.29 for the most popular songs on iTunes by jumping to Amazon, Rhapsody, or Napster? Think again.

 

Just hours after iTunes switched Tuesday from a flat 99-cent pricing policy for all its tracks to a "variable pricing" scheme ranging from $1.29 to $0.69, the other big online MP3 stores

[Panther]

VINLY, VINLY, VINLY

 

and a ipod for the car

[austrya]

VINLY, VINLY, VINLY

 

and a ipod for the car

 

 

Huh?

[myboyblue]

Huh?

you don't understand simple panglish?

[austrya]

you don't understand simple panglish?

 

I didn't know if that was the new hipster speak or not.

[tinnitus photography]

I love this discussion, because while most new vinyl does include a download (thanks music companies for trying to save your ass) ultimately vinyl will also disappear too. Sure it is trendy now, but as soon as people get tired of dealing with turntables and the indie companies that spearheaded this start to go down the tubes (sorry Touch and Go) and the majors have less marketing opportunities with the slow painful demise of the indie record store, vinyl will also once again fade. Yea I am one of those guys who also buys vinyl, but very rarely new, since the most fun of getting vinyl for me are old records that don't include downloads. Also people will start to dump their vinyl collections, just as they did 20 years ago, because you can't listen to vinyl in the car, while you jog, or take the dog for a walk.

 

how did Touch and Go spearhead a format that was developed many decades before Corey Rusk was born?

 

 

Personally I can't wait for the vinyl frenzy to be over so that I can go back to buying nice used records for reasonable prices. At the moment the inflation in price for a stupid piece of plastic in a cardboard container is a stone drag. The reason that vinyl production can't keep up is that there isn't going to be an increase in facilities for a product that isn't going to last in the long run. Death to the vinyl industry, long live vinyl.

 

so LPs won't last in the long run? you can play a pre-wars 78 just fine today. how many other formats can you do that? cds are gonna be gone in ~10 years or so.

 

VeeDee's new double vinyl came with a copy of the CD, so some artists are thinking really proactively. Downloads don't last forever either, so if you forget to download within a year you are screwed.

 

Shellac (I think) started this w/ _1000 Hurts_)

 

Like everything, the vinyl resurgence is a trend.....not that it is going to end any time soon, because I am convinced it is the one thing that is keeping the hard copy music biz alive for the time being, but inevitably people are going to get tired of of vinyl again. I mean how many times can you play that used Billy Joel album you bought for a buck. And frankly buying a new album on vinyl for 18 or 20 bucks is also sort of a rip-off, with or without a digital download.

 

so if 18 or 20 is a rip-off, what in your estimation is a fair price for a physical artifact of a recording?

 

 

 

(How many of you still use an analog camera??, which clearly takes better pictures than digital ones doesn't it, I mean doesn't it...oh yea..not THAT much better....)

 

digital still needs to handle dynamic range better, but i think it's pretty clear that analog is pretty much dead from a photography perspective, unless you just wanna screw around as a hobbyist (or a niche fine arts shooter).

[tinnitus photography]

Yep. I do the same thing in regards to downloading from archive and dime to hear a band before buying the CD. I actually just DL'ed a radio performance from the band The Drones from dime yesterday because i've been reading a lot of good things about this band. Haven't listened to it yet though.

 

The Drones are an excellent rock band. i like 'em quite a bit.

[LouieB]

how did Touch and Go spearhead a format that was developed many decades before Corey Rusk was born?

 

Of courese not......neither did Thrill Jockey, but they did continue to put out LPs when most companies stopped.

 

 

so LPs won't last in the long run? you can play a pre-wars 78 just fine today. how many other formats can you do that? cds are gonna be gone in ~10 years or so.

 

Have you tried to buy a new 78 lately??

 

 

Shellac (I think) started this w/ _1000 Hurts_)

 

VEEDEE didn't think this up either. Wilco did it after Shellac.

 

so if 18 or 20 is a rip-off, what in your estimation is a fair price for a physical artifact of a recording?

 

I bought the new Robyn Hitchcock for 18 bucks and got a free download. In this case not a rip-off. The market will bear what the market will bear won't it. If an album sucks, yea, 20 bucks is too much, download or not. CDs are a rip-off at 15 too. Most of the cost of either doesn't go to the artist anyway.

 

digital still needs to handle dynamic range better, but i think it's pretty clear that analog is pretty much dead from a photography perspective, unless you just wanna screw around as a hobbyist (or a niche fine arts shooter). You can only hear so much but eyes are actually pretty sensitive. Look at silver gelatin prints from teh old days. They are beautiful and digital can never (or can they??) reproduce that.

[tinnitus photography]

>Of course not......neither did Thrill Jockey, but they did continue to put out LPs when most companies stopped.

 

most indie labels have never stopped putting out vinyl...siltbreeze, matador, merge...

 

 

>Have you tried to buy a new 78 lately??

 

i bought one about ~15 years ago

 

 

 

>I bought the new Robyn Hitchcock for 18 bucks and got a free download. In this case not a rip-off. The market will bear what the market will bear won't it. If >an album sucks, yea, 20 bucks is too much, download or not. CDs are a rip-off at 15 too. Most of the cost of either doesn't go to the artist anyway.

 

i've always wondered why the pricing structure of movies and cds (constant, for the most part, and not affected by perceived quality or production costs) wasn't like books (variable MSRP).

 

>You can only hear so much but eyes are actually pretty sensitive. Look at silver gelatin prints from teh old days. They are beautiful and digital can never (or >can they??) reproduce that.

 

it's definitely getting a lot closer...there are 50mp digital backs for medium format bodies which meet or exceed the resolution of film and aren't subject to moire. and while i agree that b/w digital rendering isn't at the silver gelatin emulsion level yet, it's constantly getting closer and will be reached soon.

[mfwahl]

VINLY, VINLY, VINLY

 

and a ipod for the car

[LouieB]

most indie labels have never stopped putting out vinyl...siltbreeze, matador, merge...

 

 

>Have you tried to buy a new 78 lately??

 

i bought one about ~15 years ago

 

 

 

>I bought the new Robyn Hitchcock for 18 bucks and got a free download. In this case not a rip-off. The market will bear what the market will bear won't it. If >an album sucks, yea, 20 bucks is too much, download or not. CDs are a rip-off at 15 too. Most of the cost of either doesn't go to the artist anyway.

 

i've always wondered why the pricing structure of movies and cds (constant, for the most part, and not affected by perceived quality or production costs) wasn't like books (variable MSRP).

My point exactly on the indie companies...they never completely stopped putting out LPs. Most other LP production is done by those licensing material. Some major labels still put some out (Columbia/Sony), but not the rest. We aren't even talking about 45s which are nearly exclusively indie/punk rock oriented, except during record store day. As far as a format that is fun, not that high quatlity and used to be huge, the format is also pretty dead.

 

78s are dead as a doornail. There may be someone who put one out as a lark, but most turntables don't even play them. A one off hardly qualifies as a resurgence.

 

The price of LPs and CDs are both too high as evidenced by the Yep Roc sellathon of late. You asked what is a good price for a musical artifact? Once again it is what the market will bear. Clearly if downloads are 10 bucks then hard copies have to be more.

 

LouieB

[tinnitus photography]

78s are dead as a doornail. There may be someone who put one out as a lark, but most turntables don't even play them. A one off hardly qualifies as a resurgence.

 

yeah, i wasn't being serious about that.

 

The price of LPs and CDs are both too high as evidenced by the Yep Roc sellathon of late. You asked what is a good price for a musical artifact? Once again it is what the market will bear. Clearly if downloads are 10 bucks then hard copies have to be more.

 

LouieB

 

this is underscored by the Giant Sand remastered back catalogue program i just found out about...i have pretty much all of this stuff on cd, but there are a few titles i could use on LP. due to the cost of making physical copies though, it looks like most if not all titles will be available as mp3 (and possibly FLAC), unless they can find a good just-in-time manufacturing CD option...otherwise, the cost of pressing ~1000 titles of each is prohibitive.

[LouieB]

For all those vinyl fans in Chicago, check out the CHIRP record fair. I am helping one of the dealers do some selling. In fact we priced up some stuff last night and I walked away with a few things from his inventory. Always a good time at the CHIRP fair and maybe someday we will get an indie/community radio station, who knows.

 

Look for me....

 

LouieB

[calvino]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/arts/music/15virgin.html?_r=1

 

(found the link on Ken Vandermark's site)

 

Dozens of smaller record stores are still open in New York, and at least 2,000 independent shops exist around the country, according to the Almighty Institute of Music Retail, a market research company. Many of those independents have banded together to promote events like Record Store Day, which had its second anniversary in April. They are also promoting Vinyl Saturday on June 20, which will feature specially produced records by artists like Wilco and Modest Mouse to draw customers.

 

It looks the Virgin Mega store in Union Square officially closed. I don't think I ever bought anything at a Virgin store. I bought The Complete Miles Davis At Montreux at some chain store that was located on Wabash (under the El) in Chicago. I think it might have been a Virgin...now this is bugging me, Louie(or anyone) do which store I am talking about, it has since closed.

 

edit: It was a Tower on Wabash, not a Virgin. Still, I think that was the only time I purchased something at Tower.

 

edit #2: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/technology/internet/16music.html?hpw

 

PARIS — The Universal Music Group and Virgin Media said on Monday that they had reached a deal that would offer consumers unlimited downloads as part of a partnership that steps up antipiracy enforcement.

[LouieB]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/arts/music/15virgin.html?_r=1

 

(found the link on Ken Vandermark's site)

 

 

 

It looks the Virgin Mega store in Union Square officially closed. I don't think I ever bought anything at a Virgin store. I bought The Complete Miles Davis At Montreux at some chain store that was located on Wabash (under the El) in Chicago. I think it might have been a Virgin...now this is bugging me, Louie(or anyone) do which store I am talking about, it has since closed.

 

edit: It was a Tower on Wabash, not a Virgin. Still, I think that was the only time I purchased something at Tower.

 

edit #2: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/technology/internet/16music.html?hpw

It was Tower, but back in the olden days....it was Rose Records, which was extremely cool and comprehensive and the kind of record store that seems to no longer exist. At that location, which was the original one as I recall (others came on later including one near Belmont on Ashland that was originally Universal Music if my fading memory serves me well) each floor had different departments, with the first floor being rock (and maybe jazz), the second floor being classical and the third floor being show tunes, folk, maybe jazz, maybe blues, female and male vocalists somewhere too, etc. Each department had staff that knew their genre or could order something for you. This was before indie record stores although Rose was in a sense indie and it was fun to go in and look through the cutouts and sale items for good buys. Waxing nostalgic.....(pun intended....)

 

There was a Virgin Megastore up on Michigan Avenue south of Watertower, actually it was closer to the Marriott Hotel. I do believe I never bought anything there, but I certainly did buy many things at Rose, some at Tower (more when it was up on Belden and Clark.)

 

Meanwhile I saw Vandermark play solo at a remarkable little show at the Experimental Sound Studio not that far from my house. Not only did he do stuff on all his intruments (tenor, baritone, clarinet, bass clarinet...) but he talked and told really interesting stories about his various horns and some of his musical influences and friends. I know they recorded it, but not sure if it is available for download. Great stuff.

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

Several years ago now, I use to be able to buy new cds for 7 or 8 bucks.

 

Universal betting on lower prices to boost CD sales

 

Reuters, Mar 19, 2010 8:00 pm PDT

 

Universal Music Group (UMG) is embarking on one of the most ambitious efforts yet to boost U.S. CD sales, with the test of a new pricing structure designed to sell most new releases by current artists at $10 or less at retail.

 

The major's "Velocity" pricing program responds to the continuing plunge in CD sales, taking aim at brick-and-mortar retail stores that have scaled back on floor space dedicated to music. The pricing adjustments will also bring CD prices more in line with what consumers pay for digital albums at online retailers like iTunes and Amazon.

 

"We think it will really bring new life into the physical format," Universal Music Group Distribution chairman/CEO Jim Urie says.

 

Universal, which accounts for 28.7 percent of year-to-date U.S. album sales, according to Nielsen SoundScan, will cut UMG's main wholesale price point of $10.35 to about $7.50 or less for front-line releases, which are generally by established current artists. It's also breaking with prevailing industry practice by putting suggested retail prices on CDs, ranging from $6 to $10.

 

UMG is betting that it can offset the loss in revenue per CD with increased sales volume and the rollout of greater numbers of higher-priced, higher-margin deluxe editions of albums. The new CD pricing structure could also spur UMG imprints to find ways to reduce CD costs, such as embracing less elaborate packaging on standard single CD releases or placing fewer songs on albums in order to reduce mechanical royalty payments to songwriters.

 

Most new releases will carry the new price points, although there will be the occasional exception, UMG sources say. The Velocity program will begin in the second quarter and run through most of the year. Sources say the first titles to be released under Velocity are expected to include new albums by Godsmack, Game and Taio Cruz.

 

RETAIL REACTION

 

Retailers should respond well to the new price points, given that many of them were already pricing many new releases at $10 and absorbing the loss to generate foot traffic to their stores.

 

But their enthusiasm may be tempered by the narrower profit margins expected under the new pricing structure. According to sources, front-line UMG releases will carry a 25 percent profit margin, down sharply from the customary 35 percent. That means CDs with a suggested list price of $10 would wholesale for $7.50, those with a $9 list for $6.75 and so on.

 

The move may not go over well with retailers that buy from wholesalers and already reap a narrower margin than those that buy direct from labels. And merchants accustomed to having free rein in setting retail prices may chafe at the suggested list prices. Meanwhile, UMG artists and their managers may grumble about the pricing initiative, since royalty payments, usually a percentage of sales, will be calculated based on the lower price points.

 

"We are happy to see that a major music vendor has made a decision to lower its price substantially," Bob Higgins, chairman/CEO of retail operator Trans World Entertainment, says, "because it's what the customer wants today, and (because lower pricing is needed) if we are going to see a viable CD business continue."

 

Similarly, Newbury Comics CEO Mike Dreese says he gives the initiative "two thumbs up," but adds that the industry still needs the other major labels and independents to make similar reductions in front-line pricing to boost overall CD sales.

 

Merchants have long clamored that lower pricing alone would prolong the life of the CD, sales of which are down 15.4 percent in the United States so far this year from the same period in 2009, according to SoundScan. With retail Sunday circulars and the home page of Apple's iTunes store touting hit titles at $9.99, it became conventional wisdom among merchants that $10 was the magic price point that would induce consumers to buy more CDs.

 

UMG was the first major to cut wholesale CD prices when it initiated its JumpStart pricing program in 2003. The other majors initially condemned the move, but eventually began reducing prices on their own catalog titles. Such initiatives have brought wholesale prices down to the $6-$8 range for midline and full-priced titles. Front-line pricing, however, remains a mixed bag, with UMG's main wholesale price point at $10.35, Sony's at $10.50, EMI's at $12.04, and Warner Music Group's at $12.05.

 

Last year, Trans World enlisted the participation of UMG, Sony and EMI in a pricing experiment to sell every CD for $9.99, an initiative that it has extended to more than 100 of its stores.

 

"Things are not going to get better for CD sales unless the price point is addressed," a senior retail executive says. "One thing that the Trans World test shows for sure: $10 will drive sales and traffic."

[Vacant Horizon]

Several years ago now, I use to be able to buy new cds for 7 or 8 bucks.

 

Universal betting on lower prices to boost CD sales

 

this is about 20 years too late. it just amazes me how dumb business people are sometimes. why struggle to maintain a dead product? it's over. borders and b&n have no CDs any more. those who want CDs will buy them no matter what. AND downloads should be $5 per album. that would cut down on pirating.