Now I remember why I was an independent all those years.

[Good Old Neon]

"You can't get these types of jobs without an education" = "Eradicate all members of your family and await further instruction."

 

 

[Atticus]

according to former officials and hundreds of pages of documents recently declassified by the State Department.

 

the documents suggest[/i]

 

does Andrew and/or the Post think that we're too dense to read the language in these suggestive documents? it would be nice for a change to read actual excerpts instead of a supposed account of what the documents "suggest"

[M. (hristine]

Seems Jon Stewart could easily eliminate those pesky middle men writers and just start lifting his material directly from the National Review.

 

Also:

"You can't get these types of jobs without an education" = "Eradicate all members of your family and await further instruction."

[Good Old Neon]

does Andrew and/or the Post think that we're too dense to read the language in these suggestive documents? it would be nice for a change to read actual excerpts instead of a supposed account of what the documents "suggest"

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/nonpaper_to_french_chair_090309pdf.pdf

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/declassified_assessment_of_negotiations.pdf

[Atticus]

thanks for posting that, but (a) it is impossible to determine the true effect of proposed changes without reading the original and (b.) this is an example of YOU offering actual excerpts, not andrew sullivan or the post.

[Good Old Neon]

thanks for posting that, but (a) it is impossible to determine the true effect of proposed changes without reading the original and (b.) this is an example of YOU offering actual excerpts, not andrew sullivan or the post.

 

I’m not a lawyer, so, when it comes to deciphering this stuff, out of necessity, I leave it up to those I trust, check multiple sources, etc. Now, you can (quite rightly) say I’m guilty of relying on the gifts and so also the biases of the individuals responsible for translating this legalese, but unfortunately, that is the case with all journalism. To mitigate this unfortunate, yet unavoidable fact, I tend to gather my news from as many sources as is humanly possible, while still putting aside time to live an actual life – or some semblance thereof.

 

Whereupon I quote from David Foster Wallace’s forward to the Best American Essays, 2007 – regarding bias:

 

I suspect that part of why 'bias' is so loaded and dicey a word just now — and why it's so much-invoked and potent in cultural disputes — is that we are starting to become more aware of just how much subcontracting and outsourcing and submitting to other Deciders we're all now forced to do, which is threatening (the inchoate awareness is) to our sense of ourselves as intelligent free agents. And yet there is no clear alternative to this outsourcing and submission. It may possibly be that acuity and taste in choosing which Deciders one submits to is now the real measure of informed adulthood. Since I was raised with more traditional, Enlightenment-era criteria, this possibility strikes me as consumerist and scary . . . to which the counterargument would be, again, that the alternatives are literally abysmal.

 

Link - http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Best-American-Essays-2007/David-Foster-Wallace/e/9780618709274/?itm=2#EXC

 

The declassified documents I posted are directly related to and derived from both the Washington Post piece, as well as Andrew Sullivan’s contribution.

[kwall]

i was just thinking that we were overdue for a david foster wallace quote . . .

[Edie]

OK, I think that BO did great tonight -- hopefully this will really help to achieve dialog with those willing to talk and listen. I only wish that he had spoken up a month ago

[Tweedling]

“…there remains some significant details to be ironed out……….”

 

Those here illegally will not get coverage?! Is he some kind of racist?

 

It was entertaining.

[mountain bed]

I guess he said enough to placate the "hard left" (me), but it's very apparent that he is going to govern from the center. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I just hope that "the spirit of compromise" doesn't distill the vision. Let's not forget we voted for change.

[Good Old Neon]

Rep. Wilson shouts to Obama during speech: 'You lie'

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/10/obama.heckled.speech/index.html

 

I'm sure Wilson was equally hard on Bush as he stood in front of the nation and lied, repeatedly and often, which is why we're stuck in the mud in Iraq - but then, probably not. I'm sure he's also publicly critical of the "death panel" bs his collegues have been spouting, but then probably not also.

 

We're heckling people now, seriously? WTF?????

[kwall]

Wilson 2012

[Winston Legthigh]

We're heckling people now, seriously? WTF?????

Meh. The Brits have been doing it for eons.

[MattZ]

I was underwhelmed with BO last night to be honest. As someone who agrees with him, I found the speech moving and compelling. But the purpose of last night was to convince people who don't agree with him. Or, are skeptical about how he/we will pay for universal health care. And I dont think he did a good job - at all - of addressing the fears of those people.

 

Now, I suppose we can say that the republicans were not there with an open mind. And maybe there was nothing he could say. But even as a Dem, it's hard to comprehend how a politician can pledge to deliver universal health care without adding a dime to the deficit. I am sorry, but no one really buys that "cutting excess waste" is going to get us there.

[watch me fall]

Rep. Wilson shouts to Obama during speech: 'You lie'

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/10/obama.heckled.speech/index.html

 

I'm sure Wilson was equally hard on Bush as he stood in front of the nation and lied, repeatedly and often, which is why we're stuck in the mud in Iraq - but then, probably not. I'm sure he's also publicly critical of the "death panel" bs his collegues have been spouting, but then probably not also.

 

We're heckling people now, seriously? WTF?????

 

This guy is my representative, or as Edie says, he represents my district. I'm so proud!

[watch me fall]

JOE WILSON IS A GOOD MAN he should have thrown eggs at all those commies im tired of working to support these sorry democratics ,

if all the republicans didnt go to work tommorow the country would shut down. if all the democrats didnt go to work it would be just another day at walmart !

 

Why all the embaresment comments? Joe called Bull Sh 1t, on national TV and now we are all up in arms. please, everyone in that room should have called Bull Sh 1t once the president started moving his lips. So it was a special time, and place. bull dung is bull dung no matter when and where it is, Joe just called it like he seen it.

 

GO Joe!!!!

 

Look no further to understand why my state is a political and educational laughingstock.

[LouieB]

OK, I think that BO did great tonight -- hopefully this will really help to achieve dialog with those willing to talk and listen. I only wish that he had spoken up a month ago

I think he did very well too, however this is the time to speak up. This is still going to take months (or who knows, even a year) so there may need to be more speeches. This promises to be a very long road and this is just one theatrical moment along the way. (And very good theater it was....I was waiting all night for the Ted Kennedy moment....)

 

LouieB

[Good Old Neon]

Meh. The Brits have been doing it for eons.

 

True – but it’s sort of unheard of here. And, as they say, when in Rome…

 

It’s just a further sign of the O’ReillyLimbaughization of the Republican Party – it was a presidential address fer christ’s sake, not a right-wing radio addled commute to the office. And given that it came from a republican, the party responsible for pitching a shit fit whenever and wherever someone dared to criticize Bush, just that much more hypocritical.

[Good Old Neon]

if all the republicans didnt go to work tommorow the country would shut down. if all the democrats didnt go to work it would be just another day at walmart !

 

Oh the irony...

[Good Old Neon]

I was underwhelmed with BO last night to be honest. As someone who agrees with him, I found the speech moving and compelling. But the purpose of last night was to convince people who don't agree with him. Or, are skeptical about how he/we will pay for universal health care. And I dont think he did a good job - at all - of addressing the fears of those people.

 

Now, I suppose we can say that the republicans were not there with an open mind. And maybe there was nothing he could say. But even as a Dem, it's hard to comprehend how a politician can pledge to deliver universal health care without adding a dime to the deficit. I am sorry, but no one really buys that "cutting excess waste" is going to get us there.

 

Well said Matt. With regards to the - we can afford this if we just cut out the waste proposition, well, I wish it were that simple. It didn’t get me any closer to owning an Xbox 360 at home, and I suspect it won’t win much traction with anyone responsible for balancing a checkbook.

 

For me, it comes largely down to this:

 

That large-heartedness – that concern and regard for the plight of others – is not a partisan feeling. It is not a Republican or a Democratic feeling. It, too, is part of the American character. Our ability to stand in other people’s shoes. A recognition that we are all in this together; that when fortune turns against one of us, others are there to lend a helping hand. A belief that in this country, hard work and responsibility should be rewarded by some measure of security and fair play; and an acknowledgement that sometimes government has to step in to help deliver on that promise.

[Sir Stewart]

Meh. The Brits have been doing it for eons.

 

I woke up today to BBC radio coverage of the speech, and patiently waited for them to address the outburst. Then it hit me - 'Oh. Right...Brits.'

[OOO]

As Barack said last night:

 

Well, the time for bickering is over. The time for games has passed.

 

i.e. Lets forget about Joe Wilson's outburst; it's just a distraction. It doesn't further the health care debate by focusing on the dude, so lets not waste the nation's time on it.

[Good Old Neon]

As Barack said last night:

 

 

 

i.e. Lets forget about Joe Wilson's outburst; it's just a distraction. It doesn't further the health care debate by focusing on the dude, so lets not waste the nation's time on it.

 

I see your point, but the blatantly dishonest, nonsensical outbursts issuing from the right are probably the largest roadblock to any sort of meaningful healthcare reform. And from a purely strategic perspective, Democrats would be wise to focus on Wilson’s belligerent, assholish reaction to Obama’s speech. It makes the Republican Party appear petty and foolish, which, guilty as charged.

 

There are plenty of reasonable, sober reasons to be skeptical of Obama’s plan, unfortunately, the opposition has chosen to ignore them in favor of death panels and forced abortion clinics – if they want to make asses of themselves, I’m all for it, and more than willing to help further their cause.

[Sir Stewart]

It would have been smart of Obama to call out Wilson on the spot.

[Atticus]

I see your point, but the blatantly dishonest, nonsensical outbursts issuing from the right are probably the largest roadblock to any sort of meaningful healthcare reform.

 

I think genuine differing opinions on how to spend tax dollars, what level of healthcare entitlement is appropriate and who should manage healthcare are probably bigger roadblocks, but I will agree with you that the sandbox antics are tiresome.