RIP USA

[LouieB]

This probably should be in the "Dems are spineless" thread, but I didn't want to try searching that one.

If there isn't one there should be.

 

I don't see any reason NOT to criticize Obama, particularly for his cozy relationship with Wall Street and the Bankers and every other power broker. But dissatisfaction with what is going on is not equal on all sides. Some folks act like Obama IS the problem. He is simply trying to keep this thing afloat with far less support than anyone imagined.

 

(By the way Bayh quitting is more bad news... or is it??)

 

Things are very broken in Washington and all over, but it has little or nothing to do with the actual Obama presidency. Much of what we are seeing is a no win situation based on long term problems that no one wants to confront, either on the right or left or center. Corruption, cronyism, the complete power that is vested in the elite of this country, etc are the real problems. Those things were there before Obama showed up and they will be there long after he is gone. There continue to be great articles about all the problems including the stuff Frank Rich writes in the NY Times and a briliant article by Jane Mayer on Eric Holder in the recent New Yorker.

 

Not too worry; after Obama gets dumped in 2012 and we get Sarah Palin or one of her right wing stand-ins, things will be pretty much the same I fear.

 

LouieB

[Good Old Neon]

We'll use your numbers. It is still a complete waste of taxpayer money. Obama and the DNC sent their storm troopers into Alaska to stir up trouble. Palin resigning cut the legs out from underneath the goons and stopped the waste of taxpayer resources on these frivolous lawsuits. A completely selfless act and all good in my book.

 

Evan Bayh on the other hand is walking away because he doesn't want to be in the minority again. He's a coward. Patches Kennedy on the other hand has legitimate disabilities to deal with including extended pre-pubescence and genetic lack of responsibility. It's too bad his drunken murderer of a father couldn't have set this example for the kid decades ago.

 

Palin invited ethics complaints by acting unethically. All but ONE of the lawsuits was filed by parties inside of Alaska.

 

Edit - from The Mudflats:

 

That’s the top three, none of which sound particularly “frivolous.” So once we crunch the numbers, it’s highly likely that the most expensive investigation brought about by an individual, is Palin’s investigation of herself. And let’s just review that one more time.

 

The Legislature found enough evidence to approve $100,000 to investigate Palin’s firing of the Commissioner of Public Safety, in light of accusations that he was dismissed for not firing her ex-brother-in-law with whom there was bad blood. They spent $75,000 of the money allocated, and the bipartisan Legislative Council (composed of 8 Republicans and 4 Democrats) voted unanimously to go forward. An independent investigation by someone that they all agreed to found that Palin violated the Executive Branch Ethics Act. They unanimously voted to release that decision to the public.

 

As a counter-measure, and a panicked move to look good during the campaign, Palin (with the advice from the McCain cadre of lawyers headed up by Ed O’Callaghan who had no license to practice law in the State of Alaska) initiated her own ethics complaint against herself, knowing that the outcome would be decided by a friendly panel of governor-appointed people who report to her. Guess what? They found her innocent, and refused to even investigate the matter of testimony from Palin that went completely against testimony from the former commissioner. Frivolous ethics complaint? No….a calculated one that the state paid for.

 

What did the legislature do about their own $75,000 investigation that found the governor in violation of the Ethics Act? Nothing. So, why did we, as a state, pay that $75,000? What did we get for that money? Maybe that’s the question we should be asking.

 

Speaking of not knowing what you get for your money…

 

Palin herself reportedly has incurred over $600,000 in personal legal bills defending against complaints, although she won’t provide a breakdown of the expenses or what cases they were for. Palin friends and supporters set up a legal defense fund and are soliciting contributions for her legal bills.

 

link - http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/02/numbers-shmumbers/

 

If you cannot comprehend the distinction between quitting while still on the job, and not SEEKING reelection, which is to say, retiring - well, you may want to work on your comprehension skills.

 

If Palin is truly interested in being selfless, she would voluntary remove herself from the public arena, entirely - forever. She has nothing to say (outside of what can be scribbled on the inside of her hand using a magic marker), and nothing to bring to the table by way of ideas, policies or anything else for that matter. She was chosen by a failing campaign for purely cynical reasons, not because of her resume or her political acumen. She’s a hack by any standard, but a wealthy one, which, based on her behavior post quitting fiasco, it appears as though she saw dollar signs and chose to cash in.

 

It takes a special kind of loser to go up against someone like Levi Johnson and come away looking the worse for wear.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Evan Bayh on the other hand is walking away because he doesn't want to be in the minority again. He's a coward.

 

That's not at all what he said in his statement, though. He said he was tired of not getting things done on account of a lack of bipartisan . Are you reading into what you think he might have said, reading into his intentions, instead of what he said at face value? Because I know you hate how people do that. Could you please direct me to the portion of his statement yesterday where he says these things you say he's thinking?

 

So, like, people sign up for a full term (read: Palin), and they're supposed to finish it (read: not like Palin). Where in the handbook of sanity and reason is someone a coward because they leave their job because they don't want to do it anymore, after they have completed the duration of their contract?

[Basil II]

 

It takes a special kind of loser to go up against someone like Levi Johnson, and come away looking the worse for wear.

 

This should be on a T-Shirt......

 

 

-Robert

[Guest Speed Racer]

It takes a special kind of loser to go up against someone like Levi Johnson

 

I think you can just stop here, honestly.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Anybody read the profile on the tea baggers in the NYTimes today?

 

At a recent meeting of the Sandpoint Tea Party, Mrs. Stout presided with brisk efficiency until a member interrupted with urgent news. Because of the stimulus bill, he insisted, private medical records were being shipped to federal bureaucrats. A woman said her doctor had told her the same thing. There were gasps of rage. Everyone already viewed health reform as a ruse to control their medical choices and drive them into the grip of insurance conglomerates. Debate erupted. Could state medical authorities intervene? Should they call Congress?

 

As the meeting ended, Carolyn L. Whaley, 76, held up her copy of the Constitution. She carries it everywhere, she explained, and she was prepared to lay down her life to protect it from the likes of Mr. Obama.

 

“I would not hesitate,” she said, perfectly calm.

 

Damn, girlfriend. Easy to say, of course, when you likely won't ever have to.

 

(sidenote: Christ, I never watch Rachel Maddow, but that bit she did last year with Ana Marie Cox poking fun at "tea bagging" was hilarious.)

[Beltmann]

JohnO's version of reality is like a cartoon where all the dialogue was written by a half-awake Sean Hannity. To criticize Bayh for being a quitter while praising Palin's decision requires a special brand of super-partisan, hypocritical, irrational blinders. I mean, defend Palin's decision to resign if you want; I suppose a case could be made. But to then turn around and suggest that the guy who actually is fulfilling his contract is somehow more of a quitter than the person who left halfway through her contract is, simply, laughable. It's also profoundly unserious.

 

I'm normally nicer than that. But seriously, JohnO, your partisanship is showing big-time, and it's kind of embarrassing.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

So, like, people sign up for a full term (read: Palin), and they're supposed to finish it (read: not like Palin). Where in the handbook of sanity and reason is someone a coward because they leave their job because they don't want to do it anymore, after they have completed the duration of their contract?

 

I think both Bayh and Palin are cowards.

 

If you think something is wrong with the process (they both quit for similarly stated reasons), you can quit and whine about it, you can stay and whine about it, or you can STAY AND FIGHT FOR YOUR PRINCIPLES.

 

One cannot reasonably belittle one and lionize the other. Palin and Bayh are cowards.

 

Period.

[MattZ]

Maybe this is just my own bias or cynicism speaking, but I assume that Palin quit so that she wouldn't have to run for president in 2012 with a record of what she did as governor. The fewer facts that people can point to, the better. With the fall back plan being, of course, that she makes millions selling books and being a talking head, if the polls don't support a run in 2012. It's perfect.

 

That makes her worse than a coward or a quitter in my book.

 

Does anyone really believe that she quit to save taxpayers 300k? Other than JohnO, I mean?

[Good Old Neon]

I think both Bayh and Palin are cowards.

 

If you think something is wrong with the process (they both quit for similarly stated reasons), you can quit and whine about it, you can stay and whine about it, or you can STAY AND FIGHT FOR YOUR PRINCIPLES.

 

One cannot reasonably belittle one and lionize the other. Palin and Bayh are cowards.

 

Period.

 

What I know about Bayh could be inscribed with a dry Magic Marker on the lip of a Coke bottle, but, from what I’ve read, his resignation may have something to do with possibly running for Pres. in 2012.

 

It’s what I’ve heard.

 

And but with regards to your main point - apples and toasters dude, apples and toasters.

[Doug C]

As I said pages ago, I think that it was in this thread, I am done with JohnO. Why many of you otherwise intelligent people engage him is beyond me. It can't be that entertaining. Talk about violating forum rules, he is clearly here to bait. What percentage of his posts are not in Tongue Tied Lightning? The guy is fish in a barrel. How is 'sparring' enjoyable? Ignore it and it will go away.

That's just me, though. Carry on.

[Guest Speed Racer]

If you think something is wrong with the process (they both quit for similarly stated reasons), you can quit and whine about it, you can stay and whine about it, or you can STAY AND FIGHT FOR YOUR PRINCIPLES.

 

Not if you don't think you can do that anymore. If you think you have done all that you can do, then you step down after you have completed your term. I think in the case of Bayh, who stayed on for three terms as a senator, it shows a lot of humility to admit that you aren't interested in doing something anymore. He very well could have taken another term and dicked around, but he didn't.

 

Palin couldn't handle a single full term, could not fulfill a single obligation to a STATE, but still thinks she has the capacity to manage a country? That doesn't make her a coward, that makes he a delusional moron.

[Good Old Neon]

Anybody read the profile on the tea baggers in the NYTimes today?

 

 

 

Damn, girlfriend. Easy to say, of course, when you likely won't ever have to.

 

(sidenote: Christ, I never watch Rachel Maddow, but that bit she did last year with Ana Marie Cox poking fun at "tea bagging" was hilarious.)

 

I'm sorry, but these people are just plain fucking nutters.

 

Edit: I’ve read many statements from teabaggers who claim that they have become politicized for the first time in their lives, which, no shit you don’t say?

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Not if you don't think you can do that anymore. If you think you have done all that you can do, then you step down after you have completed your term. I think in the case of Bayh, who stayed on for three terms as a senator, it shows a lot of humility to admit that you aren't interested in doing something anymore. He very well could have taken another term and dicked around, but he didn't.

 

Palin couldn't handle a single full term, could not fulfill a single obligation to a STATE, but still thinks she has the capacity to manage a country? That doesn't make her a coward, that makes he a delusional moron.

 

Palin has delusions of grandeur and is an opportunist. Bayh is a spoild child of political privalege. Hell, he was almost the VP of the US.

 

The great American way...when the going gets tough, the tough get going out the door.

[Guest Speed Racer]

The great American way...when the going gets tough, the tough get going out the door.

 

Can you explain to me how serving three terms as a senator = cut and run? Seriously, that really doesn't compute for me.

 

ETA: Dude also has two terms as governor on his resume. Again, "going gets tough..."???

 

Bayh is a spoild child of political privalege.

 

Also, explain this too?

[Guest Speed Racer]

I would also say that not wanting to be a senator anymore, after completing three terms as a senator, doesn't really imply at all that he finds himself unfit for another public office. Three terms in Washington, and two terms as governor, show he has a rich and knowledgable understanding of politics and governing.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Can you explain to me how serving three terms as a senator = cut and run? Seriously, that really doesn't compute for me.

 

 

 

Also, explain this too?

 

I don't have the energy for this. If you want to think Evan Bayh is a principled man of reason LIKE HIS FATHER, then more power to you.

 

I don't even like typing Palin's and Bayh's names in the same sentence. Bayh was a man of substance. I guess I just expected more backbone from the man.

Now he can go cash in on his 'principled' stand. At least he will have THAT in common with Palin.

[Beltmann]

Public servants are obligated to fulfill their term. They are not obligated to keep serving beyond that duration. Once the term is up, their reason for moving on is entirely their decision, and therefore irrelevant.

 

Evan Bayh might be leaving for cynical reasons. I dunno. But I do know that it doesn't matter, because he is not obligated to run for re-election. As long as he fulfills his elected term, there is no cut-and-run.

[Doug C]

Anybody read the profile on the tea baggers in the NYTimes today?

Thanks for the link. I read the article but the dateline and the first sentence told me all that I needed to know. "SANDPOINT, Idaho — Pam Stout has not always lived in fear of her government."

[Good Old Neon]

I don't have the energy for this. If you want to think Evan Bayh is a principled man of reason LIKE HIS FATHER, then more power to you.

 

I don't even like typing Palin's and Bayh's names in the same sentence. Bayh was a man of substance. I guess I just expected more backbone from the man.

Now he can go cash in on his 'principled' stand. At least he will have THAT in common with Palin.

 

I don’t think it’s energy that you’re lacking, more like a valid argument.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I don't have the energy for this.

 

It shouldn't be that hard to explain what you were thinking when you wrote something; I could be wrong, though.

 

Minnesota's Republican governor has announced that he is not seeking re-election; I don't consider him a coward. He dug himself a pretty deep hole of shit, but I don't think he's cutting and running. He'll likely try a run for president, and while I think he's a complete moron, I'm okay with those ambitions, because he's pretty well qualified for the job, considering.

[Guest Speed Racer]

If you want to think Evan Bayh is a principled man of reason LIKE HIS FATHER, then more power to you.

 

If you want to think his career has been a bed of roses BECAUSE OF HIS FATHER (why are we shouting? I thought you were low on energy...), more power to you.

[Beltmann]

Minnesota's Republican governor has announced that he is not seeking re-election; I don't consider him a coward. He dug himself a pretty deep hole of shit, but I don't think he's cutting and running. He'll likely try a run for president, and while I think he's a complete moron, I'm okay with those ambitions, because he's pretty well qualified for the job, considering.

Right. And if Sarah Palin had fulfilled her elected term, and then decided to move on to book tours and Fox News, that might have been cynical and money-grubbing, but it would not have been quitting. It would have been a change of ambitions, which is entirely her right.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Right. And if Sarah Palin had fulfilled her elected term, and then decided to move on to book tours and Fox News, that might have been cynical and money-grubbing, but it would not have been quitting.

 

Exactly. Beltmann already said this, but it bears repeating:

 

Quitting: when you do not complete your obligation.

 

Not qutting: when you complete your obligation, and decide you do not want to be a part of that obligation again.

[bleedorange]

Why people keep trying to defend Sarah Palin is beyond me. Ask anyone behind the scenes on the McCain campaign...she's a moron. These tea party people also crack me up. They're focused on the wrong damn issues. I'm all for political involvement, but all this is doing is fracturing the party instead of coming up with ways and issues to galvanize it.