Deeper Down

[Guest Speed Racer]

Napalm, you're really getting on this dude who's making some very clear and thoughtful (and totally valid) posts about how he/she views the song. It's sorta weird. Is it 90 degrees where you are too? Cuz me, I'm effin dying.

 

No, it's alright here today (finally, after two 90ish days). I thought I was just discussing, honestly, because I like his(?) take on the song. My tone of voice (in my head at least) is very friendly. I apologize if it's not coming across that way.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Of course that's the kind of latent service they provide. But I don't need a friggin' song directly reminding me! Just like I don't need screenwriters injecting dialog like "Man, I sure hope our audience remembers that this movie is meant to simultaneously provide an escape and entertain!"

 

I just don't think it's as obvious and grating as you do. I don't care too much for self-referential stuff in general, but I think it works here* and I can't think of any other phrase I could insert that makes the song sound better; in fact, most I can think of make the song sound cheesier. I'd rather have the song with name-dropping than not have the song at all; after hearing it on Colbert I'd have been pretty disappointed if a studio recording didn't pop up. The riff is incredibly catchy.

 

* I think it works that much more because the camel-party artwork and ___ (the ____ ) marketing for the album really did create a tongue-in-cheek vibe for the release.

[Moss]

I don't think it's marketing, but I feel the same way as PageTheSage - the self-reference is a turn-off. It's funny though, I don't mind that They Might Be Giants have a song (one I really like) about themselves, and I wouldn't mind if say, The White Stripes had a song called We're The White Stripes. And Prince's My Name Is Prince is fun, too. But Wilco hits me in a way that pretty much no other bands do. So the song irks me. Actually if the Beatles had a song called The Beatles (the Song), it'd probably bug me.

 

 

I can't put my finger on it but "Glass Onion" by the Beatles always bothered me a bit. The "I told you about the Walrus and me...Here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul" stuff. Just seemed like they were breaking the fourth wall in some way, although I realize it was a response to the Paul is Dead stuff.

 

As usual I'm probably not making much sense.

[The High Heat]

I just don't want Tweedy to turn into McCartney, who can be quite pretentious in his awareness of his fame.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I just don't want Tweedy to turn into McCartney, who can be quite pretentious in his awareness of his fame.

 

Well, based on his timeline, Sue was supposed to join Wilco on keyboards and harmonies, so maybe we're in the clear?

[choo-choo-charlie]

after hearing it on Colbert I'd have been pretty disappointed if a studio recording didn't pop up. The riff is incredibly catchy.

 

 

I agree, although I feel that the debut on Colbert was the best it ever sounded. The studio recording didn't (and still doesn't) catch me the way that video clip did.

[mpolak21]

I remember when they first played Wilco The Song on Colbert I was extremely underwhelmed. I remember paraphrasing this scene in the film 24 Hour Party People where Tony Wilson played by Steve Coogan is listening to A Certain Radio unveil their new jazz direction and he starts riffing "jazz is the last refuse of the untalented, jazz musicians enjoy themselves far more than anyone listening to them, it's like theater it's what you when you can't get a gig." I changed those lines to "writing a song with your band's name in it is the last refuse of the untalented" after Colbert.

 

Since, it has grown me a bit. I think it's kind of a sweet sentiment. It's not something I ever actively feel the need to listen to, but I haven't deleted it from my ipod completely. Deeper Down sounds pretty cool to my ears, but the lyrics kind of fall flat for me. It's rare that I don't feel anything when listening to Wilco songs, and I have to say that's the case with most of the songs on The Album. Sky Blue Sky had songs that I totally hated on it, but they at least caused me to feel something. With WTA I have to say I am completely indifferent about everything except Bull Black Nova and Solitaire which I love and You Never Know, which I don't.

 

--Mike

[Guest Speed Racer]

but I haven't deleted it from my ipod completely.

 

Just half, then?

 

Deeper Down sounds pretty cool to my ears, but the lyrics kind of fall flat for me. It's rare that I don't feel anything when listening to Wilco songs, and I have to say that's the case with most of the songs on The Album.

 

That's exactly my thought, too! But I also associate songs with circumstances surrounding the first time I listened to them, so I do have sentimental feelings for W(TS) based on the Oct/November 2008 period when it debuted. Other than that, only Y&I, Sonny Feeling and BBN resonate with me. Solitaire could, but the arpeggio organ riff in the intro ruined it for me for a long time, and I don't think it's sunk in yet.

[mpolak21]

Just half, then?

 

I remixed it and muted all of Pat and John's parts. The three of us are no longer speaking, I don't want to talk about it.

 

--Mike

[bjorn_skurj]

I really like Wilco (The Song) and have since I first heard it.

[PageTheSage1275]

@Napalm: Don't worry, I wasn't reading any vitriol in your posts! It was a good discussion. And again, I think the riff is great...classic Wilco, creatively approached musically. We just disagree on the thematic part of the song

[rwilson580]

Deeper Down I love; definitely one of (TA) highlights for me. It's got a suite feel to me...I could understand it if some found it pretentious, but suggesting there's not much going on there?...that confuses me a little.

 

3rd person? Hey, Tweedy's written a million intimate, first person songs. 3rd person seems a little different, which is cool for me. Sports metaphors? Can't recall a ton of those in Wilco songs...that's ok too. If Jeff wrote the same song over and over I'd probably keep liking it, but I sure don't mind if he stretches out a little bit too.

 

"The Song"? Eh. It's a real nice pop song, but the chorus pushes it a little bit into the silly category. If I'm introducing someone to the band I make sure this song is nowhere in the area. Not too cool. Along with (TA) title, the camel, Feist it made the entire album seem a little light weight for me.

 

Did I seriously see someway equate (The Song) with ALTWYS? No offense, but I'm not sure there are two more divergent songs in the catalogue.

[Guest Speed Racer]

3rd person? Hey, Tweedy's written a million intimate, first person songs. 3rd person seems a little different, which is cool for me. Sports metaphors? Can't recall a ton of those in Wilco songs...that's ok too. If Jeff wrote the same song over and over I'd probably keep liking it, but I sure don't mind if he stretches out a little bit too.

 

Jeff said in an article that in this album, he was trying to work on his songwriting. Most of the things I don't like about this album are tricks/tools the band hasn't used before, including some aspects of Jeff's songwriting. I appreciate that he's trying to write outside of his own strengths, but I don't appreciate the result this time.

 

[...]Feist it made the entire album seem a little light weight for me.

 

The presence of a female backing vocal diminishes the weight of an album?

[bjorn_skurj]

By ignoring Feist almost entirely, I was able to enjoy her performance on "You and I" for what it was - a nice half of a duet. There's a lot to be said for ignoring things.

[froggie]

zzzzzzzzzzzz... i dont hate the song, but its a good sleeping pill

[a-me-with-a-you]

Well this has been an entertaining read, I came to check replies to my message and up until two days ago there were none and now this monster thread has accumulated in no time. Controversial and opposite standpoints appearantly have the effect of fast replies and rebutals.

 

Back to the topic: Deeper Down is neither a throwaway track nor one I ever put on repeat. In that respect it's a lot like the whole album. I do think it's place is perfect, as usual the tracks were arranged expertly, even if a little bit of formula is applied. I would like to see a Wilco album start with a couple of slow hypnotizers and end with a kidsmoke-type rocker, just to mess with fans.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzz... i dont hate the song, but its a good sleeping pill

I've never felt a soporofic quality to a song is a detractor. I love how calming some songs Tweedy created are. I often use Wilco tunes to slow my heartbeat and fall dead asleep.

 

What you meant to say was boring, sorry to argue semantics lol.

[jff]

 

 

The presence of a female backing vocal diminishes the weight of an album?

 

I think it's more like guest stars diminish the weight of an album, regardless of their gender.

 

I don't know if I believe that, but I could see how someone might. Someone might think they were weak on material (and it seems they were), so they called in a ringer for help.

 

I think the reality is that they were friendly with her and wanted to try something new. As it turned out, it's little more than fluff on an album with too much fluff, by the standards set by Wilco's back catalog.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I think it's more like guest stars diminish the weight of an album, regardless of their gender.

 

Yeah, A.M. would have so much more street cred if Brian Hennemen didn't guest on lead guitar.

 

Wilco wanted a female backing vocal, and I think the song is stronger for it. Should they have picked a nameless talent for the job? Jeff stated in 2003 that he had always wanted Forget the Flowers to be a duet, but couldn't line up a female vocalist he liked who was available during their studio time. That wouldn't have diminished the song, would it?

[jff]

Yeah, A.M. would have so much more street cred if Brian Hennemen didn't guest on lead guitar.

 

Wilco wanted a female backing vocal, and I think the song is stronger for it. Should they have picked a nameless talent for the job? Jeff stated in 2003 that he had always wanted Forget the Flowers to be a duet, but couldn't line up a female vocalist he liked who was available during their studio time. That wouldn't have diminished the song, would it?

 

I wasn't aware that Brian Henneman was a star at the time of A.M. Not that Feist is a big famous star, but most people who listen to Wilco probably know who she is, or at least are aware of her existence as a singer/recording artist. How well known was Brian Henneman when he was asked to play on A.M.?

 

Again, I'm not endorsing the concept of guest stars weakening albums. I'm just throwing it out as a possibility that some people might see it that way. In some cases, it's very gimmicky, such as almost any time a country artist does it.

 

Wilco should invite whoever they want to play on their songs. Sometimes guest musicians add a great deal to a song, such as the horns on ITMWLY. If a guest were to diminish a song, the song was either not that good to begin with, or it was a hair-brained idea, or perhaps it was a poorly executed good idea.

 

By the way, I fully support an artist's right to pursue hair-brained ideas.

[choo-choo-charlie]

Yeah, A.M. would have so much more street cred if Brian Hennemen didn't guest on lead guitar.

 

Wilco wanted a female backing vocal, and I think the song is stronger for it. Should they have picked a nameless talent for the job? Jeff stated in 2003 that he had always wanted Forget the Flowers to be a duet, but couldn't line up a female vocalist he liked who was available during their studio time. That wouldn't have diminished the song, would it?

 

Oh, man, I forgot about that. That'd be sick. Who'd be good for a female counterpart on "Forget the Flowers?" Neko Case? Jenny Lewis? Alison Krauss? Lucinda Williams?

[mpolak21]

Again, I'm not endorsing the concept of guest stars weakening albums. I'm just throwing it out as a possibility that some people might see it that way. In some cases, it's very gimmicky, such as almost any time a country artist does it.

 

Good, for a second there I thought you had just dismissed Eric Clapton's parts on While my Guitar Gently Weeps as rubbish.

 

Feist is used to great effect on the Broken Social Scene records, and I like her solo stuff all right (not enough to listen to, but enough to illegally download). But, well I don't think You and I is Poor Places or even, you know, good, but I don't think that has a whole lot to do with her.

 

Oh, man, I forgot about that. That'd be sick. Who'd be good for a female counterpart on "Forget the Flowers?" Neko Case? Jenny Lewis? Alison Krauss? Lucinda Williams?

 

Carla Bozulich

[calvino]

I wasn't aware that Brian Henneman was a star at the time of A.M. Not that Feist is a big famous star, but most people who listen to Wilco probably know who she is, or at least are aware of her existence as a singer/recording artist. How well known was Brian Henneman when he was asked to play on A.M.?

 

 

To Wilco fans he was pretty well known, at least.

[jff]

To Wilco fans he was pretty well known, at least.

 

Fair enough. I could be wrong, but isn't he the lead guitarist on the entire record, and not just a guy who makes a cameo appearance?

[Guest Speed Racer]

If a guest were to diminish a song, the song was either not that good to begin with, or it was a hair-brained idea, or perhaps it was a poorly executed good idea.

 

I think you're implying this and not saying it, but all three of those accounts are entirely based on listener perception. Of all the songs I can think of with guest collaborators, the I can't think of any that would be any better if they removed the guest. That is, the ones I don't like, I don't like any which way.

 

Fair enough. I could be wrong, but isn't he the lead guitarist on the entire record, and not just a guy who makes a cameo appearance?

 

Well, he wasn't a member of Wilco, so, that makes him a guest, right? How is a 44-minute cameo different than a 3:30 one?

[jff]

 

How is a 44-minute cameo different than a 3:30 one?

 

 

Helping craft an entire album is the same to you as showing up one day and singing a co-vocal on one short song?

 

Or to state it another way, Bill Murry made a cameo in Zombie Town. If he had been in the whole movie it would not have been a cameo appearance.