LouieB Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I am glad Americans have become optimistic about the future.. Best judge of optimism is the stock market.. DJIA when Bus...h left office = 6427, DJIA now over 13,000.. Also glad tens of millions of Americans didn't have their retirement funds swept away due to destructive Republican policies.. Also glad Bin Laden is history.. Also glad Gaddafi is history.. Also glad there has been NO successful terrorist attacks in our country under this president.. Also glad, for the first time in 5 decades, America's dependence on foreign oil is below 50%.. Also glad; for the first time in 20 years, manufacturing companies are relocating back to the US.. Also glad America's auto industry is alive, stronger, and more proffitable than ever, consequently saving millions of jobs.. Also glad the global community no longer thinks we have an idot in the White House.. Also, I'm glad indeed we have a president who denounces torture.. I'm definately glad we have a president that realizes the health of our citizenry is directly related to the health of our society.. Also, I'm glad we have a president that believes women are capable of making decisions concerning their own body.. Heck, I'm just glad to know we have a mentally stable individual in the White House..yea, but he still sucks.....just kidding of course. Even with his faults, Obama still kicks ass as far as I am concerned for all the reasons mentioned above. Sure Democracy Now can pick on him, as can most leftists, but if he weren't significantly left of center the right wouldn't be doing double back flips to try and defeat him this time. We can split all the hairs we want about the details of certain policy and political issues we are unhappy with him about, but just sit for one minute and consider a Romney presidency or more startling a Santorum presidency. And the absurdity of Romney saying we need to drill for more oil, when domestic drilling is up over all recent levels. The Trib had a long op ed today about how George W Bush has completely disappeared from view. No one wants to use him as an example of a great president and certainly NOT the Republicans who find him way too liberal. But then again both Regan and Nixon look liberal compared to these guys. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 We can only hope the circular firing squad on the right keeps on and Obama is reelected, but I wouldn't be complacent about it. It will still take a lot of work, unless unemployment magically drops to six percent and gas prices fall to 2.50 a gallon. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Dig a little deeper before you make such bold statements. Don't be duped again... Job Outsourcing Statistics http://www.statisticbrain.com/outsourcing-statistics-by-country/ Broken Promises: Pensions All Over America Are Being Savagely Cut Or Are Vanishing Completely http://theeconomicco...hing-completely Not So Fast On That Whole Economic Recovery Thing http://theeconomicco...-recovery-thing 20 Economic Statistics To Use To Wake Sheeple Up From Their Entertainment-Induced Comas http://theeconomicco...t-induced-comas 55 Interesting Facts About The U.S. Economy In 2012http://theeconomicco...economy-in-2012 FBI organizes almost all terror plots in the US http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-terror-report-plot-365-899/ 10 Things That Every American Should Know About The Federal Reserve http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/10-things-that-every-american-should-know-about-the-federal-reserve The Deception of 0% Interest Rates, High Costs and Capital Destruction http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article33042.html Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 its funny. alot of this stuff might be true, but less regulation isn't really the answer to most of it. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Broken Promises: Pensions All Over America Are Being Savagely Cut Or Are Vanishing Completely http://theeconomicco...hing-completely Not So Fast On That Whole Economic Recovery Thing http://theeconomicco...-recovery-thing 20 Economic Statistics To Use To Wake Sheeple Up From Their Entertainment-Induced Comas http://theeconomicco...t-induced-comas I can think of no more balanced place to find unbiased economic ponderings than a website called: the economic collapse blog. I think they have a mission to communicate something. They probably get irritated when people point at any sign of improvement. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 no matter what the unemployment "rate" is they can never ever argue with amount of jobs added per month. the amount of jobs added is at a 4 year high and has been for the last 3 months Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 If you actually go to the website the hyper links take you to the source of their info. The site compiles legitimate economic figures and posts them in one place. That does not invalidate the information. It was more convenient to post links to that site for some of the information for the sake of saving time since I knew the info was posted there. They dropped folks who are unemployed long term but have given up looking for work in January so the unemployment numbers dropped.... http://www.shadowstats.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 There are lies, and there is selective truth. One is fraud, the other is bias. I'm seeing the latter. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 sparky again. the rate may be subjective but the number of jobs added per month isnt. do you understand what im saying? Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Good read for all you progressives out there... Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies By Glenn Greenwald The candidate supported by progressives — President Obama — himself holds heinous views on a slew of critical issues and himself has done heinous things with the power he has been vested. He has slaughtered civilians — Muslim children by the dozens — not once or twice, but continuously in numerous nations with drones, cluster bombs and other forms of attack. He has sought to overturn a global ban on cluster bombs. He has institutionalized the power of Presidents — in secret and with no checks — to target American citizens for assassination-by-CIA, far from any battlefield. He has waged an unprecedented war against whistleblowers, the protection of which was once a liberal shibboleth. He rendered permanently irrelevant the War Powers Resolution, a crown jewel in the list of post-Vietnam liberal accomplishments, and thus enshrined the power of Presidents to wage war even in the face of a Congressional vote against it. His obsession with secrecy is so extreme that it has become darkly laughable in its manifestations, and he even worked to amend the Freedom of Information Act (another crown jewel of liberal legislative successes) when compliance became inconvenient. He has entrenched for a generation the once-reviled, once-radical Bush/Cheney Terrorism powers of indefinite detention, military commissions, and the state secret privilege as a weapon to immunize political leaders from the rule of law. He has shielded Bush era criminals from every last form of accountability. He has vigorously prosecuted the cruel and supremely racist War on Drugs, including those parts he vowed during the campaign to relinquish — a war which devastates minority communities and encages and converts into felons huge numbers of minority youth for no good reason. He has empowered thieving bankers through the Wall Street bailout, Fed secrecy, efforts to shield mortgage defrauders from prosecution, and the appointment of an endless roster of former Goldman, Sachs executives and lobbyists. He’s brought the nation to a full-on Cold War and a covert hot war with Iran, on the brink of far greater hostilities. He has made the U.S. as subservient as ever to the destructive agenda of the right-wing Israeli government. His support for some of the Arab world’s most repressive regimes is as strong as ever. Most of all, America’s National Security State, its Surveillance State, and its posture of endless war is more robust than ever before. The nation suffers from what National Journal‘s Michael Hirsh just christened “Obama’s Romance with the CIA.” He has created what The Washington Post just dubbed“a vast drone/killing operation,” all behind an impenetrable wall of secrecy and without a shred of oversight. Obama’s steadfast devotion to what Dana Priest and William Arkin called “Top Secret America” has severe domestic repercussions as well, building up vast debt and deficits in the name of militarism that create the pretext for the “austerity” measures which the Washington class (including Obama) is plotting to impose on America’s middle and lower classes.The simple fact is that progressives are supporting a candidate for President who has done all of that — things liberalism has long held to be pernicious. I know it’s annoying and miserable to hear. Progressives like to think of themselves as the faction that stands for peace, opposes wars, believes in due process and civil liberties, distrusts the military-industrial complex, supports candidates who are devoted to individual rights, transparency and economic equality. All of these facts — like the history laid out by Stoller in that essay — negate that desired self-perception. These facts demonstrate that the leader progressives have empowered and will empower again has worked in direct opposition to those values and engaged in conduct that is nothing short of horrific. So there is an eagerness to avoid hearing about them, to pretend they don’t exist. And there’s a corresponding hostility toward those who point them out, who insist that they not be ignored.The parallel reality — the undeniable fact — is that all of these listed heinous views and actions from Barack Obama have been vehemently opposed and condemned by Ron Paul: and among the major GOP candidates, only by Ron Paul. For that reason, Paul’s candidacy forces progressives to face the hideous positions and actions of their candidate, of the person they want to empower for another four years. If Paul were not in the race or were not receiving attention, none of these issues would receive any attention because all the other major GOP candidates either agree with Obama on these matters or hold even worse views.Progressives would feel much better about themselves, their Party and their candidate if they only had to oppose, say, Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann. That’s because the standard GOP candidate agrees with Obama on many of these issues and is even worse on these others, so progressives can feel good about themselves for supporting Obama: his right-wing opponent is a warmonger, a servant to Wall Street, a neocon, a devotee of harsh and racist criminal justice policies, etc. etc. Paul scrambles the comfortable ideological and partisan categories and forces progressives to confront and account for the policies they are working to protect. His nomination would mean that it is the Republicancandidate — not the Democrat — who would be the anti-war, pro-due-process, pro-transparency, anti-Fed, anti-Wall-Street-bailout, anti-Drug-War advocate (which is why some neocons are expressly arguing they’d vote for Obama over Paul). Is it really hard to see why Democrats hate his candidacy and anyone who touts its benefits? It’s perfectly rational and reasonable for progressives to decide that the evils of their candidate are outweighed by the evils of the GOP candidate, whether Ron Paul or anyone else. An honest line of reasoning in this regard would go as follows:Yes, I’m willing to continue to have Muslim children slaughtered by covert drones and cluster bombs, and America’s minorities imprisoned by the hundreds of thousands for no good reason, and the CIA able to run rampant with no checks or transparency, and privacy eroded further by the unchecked Surveillance State, and American citizens targeted by the President for assassination with no due process, and whistleblowers threatened with life imprisonment for “espionage,” and the Fed able to dole out trillions to bankers in secret, and a substantially higher risk of war with Iran (fought by the U.S. or by Israel with U.S. support) in exchange for less severe cuts to Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs, the preservation of the Education and Energy Departments, more stringent environmental regulations, broader health care coverage, defense of reproductive rights for women, stronger enforcement of civil rights for America’s minorities, a President with no associations with racist views in a newsletter, and a more progressive Supreme Court.Without my adopting it, that is at least an honest, candid, and rational way to defend one’s choice. It is the classic lesser-of-two-evils rationale, the key being that it explicitly recognizes that both sides are “evil”: meaning it is not a Good v. Evil contest but a More Evil v. Less Evil contest. But that is not the discussion that takes place because few progressives want to acknowledge that the candidate they are supporting — again — is someone who will continue to do these evil things with their blessing. Instead, we hear only a dishonest one-sided argument that emphasizes Paul’s evils while ignoring Obama’s (progressives frequently ask: how can any progressive consider an anti-choice candidate but don’t ask themselves: how can any progressive support a child-killing, secrecy-obsessed, whistleblower-persecuting Drug Warrior?). Read more:http://www.salon.com/2011/12/31/progressives_and_the_ron_paul_fallacies/ Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 sparky again. the rate may be subjective but the number of jobs added per month isnt. do you understand what im saying? Read these. I can't explain it any better... The January Jobs Are Statistical Artifacts Paul Craig Roberts Link:http://www.paulcraig...ical-artifacts/ No Jobs For Americans Paul Craig Roberts Link:http://www.paulcraig...-for-americans/ Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Good read for all you progressives out there... Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies By Glenn Greenwald The candidate supported by progressives — President Obama — himself holds heinous views on a slew of critical issues and himself has done heinous things with the power he has been vested. He has slaughtered civilians — Muslim children by the dozens —Read more:http://www.salon.com...paul_fallacies/ So NATO botches a no knock raid, kills some innocent people and you say "Obama has killed dozens of children"? I would be careful about where the finger points, in terms of fallacies. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 You are kidding me, right? Did you excuse this when Bush was in the White House? Wake up. They are both the same. Don't try passing the buck to NATO either. This article was written before the American serial killer soldier went on a rampage. We (current administration) are killing people every day (including kids) in Afghanistan and other countries and have been doing so for the past three years. Don't you watch the corporate controlled media? We are NATO and your tax dollars go towards the killing... The United States contributes between one-fifth and one-quarter of NATO's budget. In FY2010 that contribution totaled $711.8 million. In case you think I'm making this stuff up... U.S. Drone Kills 16-Year-Old Pakistani Boy Days After He Attends Anti-Drone Organizing Meeting http://www.democracy...lls_16_year_old U.S.: Report CIA Drones Killed 168 Kids 'Way Off the Mark' The official said that while the U.S. agrees around 2,000 suspected militants have been killed, the total civilian casualties are closer to 50. http://abcnews.go.co...64#.T2T3w9nNmGU Two boys reported killed in CIA strike http://www.thebureau...-in-cia-strike/ US Drone Attack kills Scores in Somalia http://www.almanar.c...id=21&eid=47329 U.S. drone attack kills 25 in Pakistan The strike, which killed three women and four children as well as 18 suspected militants, comes only two days after a contentious meeting between the U.S. and Pakistan over the drone campaign. http://articles.lati...attack-20110423 What were you saying about NATO? Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 You are kidding me, right? Did you excuse this when Bush was in the White House? Wake up. They are both the same. Don't try passing the buck to NATO either. This article was written before the American serial killer soldier went on a rampage. We (current administration) are killing people every day (including kids) in Afghanistan and other countries and have been doing so for the past three years. Don't you watch the corporate controlled media? That qualification reduces your falacy by at least 80%. I am predicitng that more kids would die in a Romney administration, than an Obama one. There's nothing an imaginary vote for an unelectable candidate can do to change that fact. Until the critics of our limited 2 party system pony up an effective way to reform it, it's all pretentious arm chair finger pointing. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Well, at least I'm not making excuses for a war mongering regime. You can't change things until you admit there are changes to be made. Ignoring it or pretending your guy is less immoral than the other is only perpetuating the system you speak of. I don't know how anyone who has a conscious can vote for such things to continue. You can refuse to vote for the politicians put forward by the republicrats. You can refuse to donate your time and money to their campaigns. You can educate yourself and others to the alternatives. You've got to follow your principles. As the old Chinese proverb says, A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step... Talk about bumper stickers... Link to post Share on other sites
tugmoose Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 You can run for office. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I already threw my hat in the ring many pages ago in this thread... Link to post Share on other sites
tugmoose Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I already threw my hat in the ring many pages ago in this thread... Well, I was less addressing you and more adding to your list. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 get it man! youre deep! Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 That joke originated as what is the difference between capitalism and communism?? Nothing new here...move along. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 While you were all out celebrating St. Patrick's Day the president was busy protecting the Constitution... New Obama Executive Order Seizes U.S. Infrastructure and Citizens for Military Preparedness In a stunning move, on March 16, 2012, Barack Obama signed an Executive Order stating that the President and his specifically designated Secretaries now have the authority to commandeer all domestic U.S. resources including food and water. The EO also states that the President and his Secretaries have the authority to seize all transportation, energy, and infrastructure inside the United States as well as forcibly induct/draft American citizens into the military. The EO also contains a vague reference in regards to harnessing American citizens to fulfill “labor requirements” for the purposes of national defense. Not only that, but the authority claimed inside the EO does not only apply to National Emergencies and times of war. It also applies in peacetime. The National Defense Resources Preparedness Executive Order exploits the “authority” granted to the President in the Defense Production Act of 1950 in order to assert that virtually every means of human survival is now available for confiscation and control by the President via his and his Secretaries’ whim. The unconstitutionality of the overwhelming majority of Executive Orders is well established, as well as the illegality of denying citizens their basic Constitutional and human rights, even in the event of a legitimate national emergency. Likewise, it should also be pointed out that, like Obama’s recent Libyan adventure and the foregone conclusion of a Syrian intervention, there is no mention of Congress beyond a minor role of keeping the allegedly co-equal branch of government informed on contextually meaningless developments.... ...Nevertheless, some have no doubt begun to wonder why the President has signed such an order. Not only that, but why did he sign the order now? Is it because of the looming war with Iran or the Third World War that will likely result from such a conflict? Is it because of the ticking time bomb called the economy that is only one jittery move or trade deal away from total disintegration? Is it because of a growing sense of hatred of their government amongst the general public? Is there a coming natural disaster of which we are unaware? Are there plans for martial law?Whatever the reason for the recent announcement of Obama’s new Executive Order, there is one thing we do know for sure - “It wouldn’t happen here” has been the swan song of almost every victim of democide in modern human history. Read more:http://www.activistp...-seizes-us.html In case you think I made this up... http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness It seems that Obama's promise to stop Bush's habit of issuing EO that by-pass congress and the Constitution is another lie... Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Well, at least I'm not making excuses for a war mongering regime. No, you're just championing someone who you comfortably know will never win. That way you won't be put to task, you can just sit back and say "I told you so." Keep cutting and pasting man, feels good to be right and do nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 that thread you posted about the jobs added did nothing to disprove the bureaus numbers. it actually broke them down. its funny when we were losing jobs you never heard a peep that the numbers were off. now that we keep adding there is a stink every time things get better. stop hoping for the worst sparky and try and be happy that things are most obviously getting better. just be happy. Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 the American serial killer soldier went on a rampage. There is a hot and cold difference between someone flipping out and going on a mass-murder spree and someone being a serial killer. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 If you have the time watch this video. It will help you understand that an economic collapse is coming no matter what the unemployment numbers are or what your government leaders from the propaganda ministry say... its funny when we were losing jobs you never heard a peep that the numbers were off. now that we keep adding there is a stink every time things get better. Maybe it was not mentioned in the mainstream media, but folks were writing about the numbers being far worse than the ones being reported back then as well. The government is just under reporting the true number of folks who are out of work but have given up hope of finding employment. Just like the inflation figures. The old system, dumped back in the Reagan years I think, shows over twice the inflation if used to calculate price increases today. It's all political bullshit. Don't accept it. You are smarter than that aren't you? No, you're just championing someone who you comfortably know will never win. That way you won't be put to task, you can just sit back and say "I told you so." Keep cutting and pasting man, feels good to be right and do nothing. How does it feel to wrong and not be able to disprove what I've been posting? Obama is a fraud. He has continued Bush's neocon foreign policy and his bailouts of the corporate oligarchs who run this country. If you continue to make excuses for him then it is you who is taking the comfortable way out. Make Obama a Republican in your mind and see if you could support him? You can't. You are only agreeing with him because of his label not his policies. If he wasn't a Democrat you would not support him and you know it. It seems I haven't taken the easy way out since only one or two post in this entire thread from other VC members have supported anything I've posted. My positions don't seem to get much support here so how can you say I am taking the easy way out? I should have stopped posting comments 20 pages ago if I was looking to take the easy way out. Should I go along to get along? Plus, what other reason would you have had to visit this forum the past month or so? I actually thought Ron Paul had a chance going into this. But as you know he has gotten no support from the Republican establishment, he was ignored by the media and the primary voting shenanigans that have plagued the primaries have cost him dearly. He is anti-establishment so the establishment labels him a crazy nut case. I fear he is the last best hope for this country. Another term of Obama or one of the other Republicans will result in a America you won't recognize in four years. They are all the same, leading us down the same path of failed policies both domestic and foreign. Good luck... Link to post Share on other sites
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