Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Let's lighten things up a bit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zTW6Ekqn-4&list=UU4SHaIWFqiI7RqEGxiwloZA&index=2&feature=plcp Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 The dollar not being backed by gold and the dollar being printed essentially out of thin air is a bit uncomfortable for me to think about. When you look at the mess that Europe is in......what insures we won't be as bad as Greece at some point. Something pretty drastic will have to take place for us to steer out of the direction we're headed. Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 No, have some tuna... Weird, I did and it was delicious. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Gold is shiny metal. It's only inherent use is as an electrical conductant and as a way to make poor people slave away in dangerous conditions. Most of the ways we extract gold are damaging by either causing excessive erosion, and in some cases putting cyanide in the water supply. It is a limited resource in a modern economy that is inherently elastic. People on TV like to sell gold to old people who feel more satisfied with a hunk of metal in their closet than an abstract number, which psychologically makes total sense. If the U.S. switched back to an archaic gold backed dollar in a matter of years we would no longer be able to pay for imports because all of our gold would be gone. It would force our country into a situation where imports would have to equal exports. This sounds reasonable for an individual's finances but at an international level it would spell collapse for many economies, not just our own. The other issue with returning to a gold standard is although the Federal Reserve is a questionable institution, they still exist to keep currency, and credit in tune with our current economy. A gold standard would mean that the rise and fall of the quantity of currency (literally gold) would be totally arbitrary. Finding more metal (money) does not mean that the standard of living went up, producing less gold does not mean that our GDP is going down to match it. Economies stretch and contract. We had a perfectly good depression in 1919 and we didn't have Fiat currency. The problem with buying into Sparky's doomsday scenario is that it starts with this gold standard premise, which I can't buy. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 If you had to choose between taking a pile of 1,600 dollar bills or one ounce of gold which would you take? I think we all know the answer. We did fine as a nation on the gold standard. We were taken off of it to enable the Federal Reserve to print more money for the US government to borrow at interest to spend on wars, social programs, etc. and as a result we have deflated the value of our money and plunged our nation into a pit of debt we will most likely never get out of. Money is created out of nothing. There is nothing backing our currency except the government's word that it is worth something. I really suggest you read that book which is a watered down version of the Creature From Jekyll Island. It is an eye opener. You'll never view politics and economics the same. It is very liberating to finally understand how the system has been rigged in favor of the central bankers at our expense. You'll understand why politicians, no matter which party they belong to, support and promote basically the same policies. Do you ever wonder why they never seem to make decisions that benefit the people? They always take the side of the bankers who fund their campaigns, wars, etc. They keep perpetuating the system which is mathematically doomed to fail. Look, it took me 54 years to figure this shit out for myself. I had the same doubts and questions you have. It just takes time to gather the facts and to put all the pieces together in your head. But when it finally clicks you'll see the world through a whole different prism. Like I said, it is pretty liberating but frightening at the same time when you realize the whole system is nothing but an illusion or for that matter a lie. The expansion of the money system is possible under the gold standard. But it also acts as a self regulating instrument on government spending. It's complicated only in the sense that most don't understand how the system we have now works. Once you have that under your belt the rest is easy to grasp. The current system offers too many benefits to banks and politicians to mess with it, which will result in a bigger collapse in the end. They know there is only a fixed period of time they can get away with inflating the money supply to pay for their crap. That is why the Fed has been doing QE 1, QE 2, TWIST, and now are talking about QE 3. All they are doing is kicking the can down the road. But as that article stated, the road is about to come to an end. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 The dollar not being backed by gold and the dollar being printed essentially out of thin air is a bit uncomfortable for me to think about. When you look at the mess that Europe is in......what insures we won't be as bad as Greece at some point. Something pretty drastic will have to take place for us to steer out of the direction we're headed. We are actually worse off than those countries when it comes to debt, yet our Federal Reserve is supplying much of the money to keep those countries afloat. That is why they do not want an audit of the Fed. It will expose how it has become the world's printing press. They only increase a countries indebtedness to the central banks when they rework their debt payments. Remember what one famous central banker once stated, "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws". The world is fast becoming the playground and the property of those very same bankers. They destroy national sovereignty and what is left of representative government by making a countries' leaders dependent on them for survival while they extort their natural resources as a condition for the loans. Have you read John Perkins' book Confessions on an Economic Hit-man? He explains how the system works. Another eye opener. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Weird, I did and it was delicious. I didn't mean you any harm, I thought you knew and would get the joke... Fukushima radiation seen in tuna off California http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/28/us-japan-nuclear-tuna-idUSBRE84R0MF20120528 Tuna contaminated with Fukushima radiation found in California Scientists amazed that bluefins swimming in Pacific five months after Japanese disaster contained tiny amounts of caesium http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/29/tuna-contaminated-radiation-fukushima-california Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 "when you realize the whole system is nothing but an illusion or for that matter a lie." who doesnt know that? but if thats true then why would the central bank conspirators let it happen?? couldnt they just make it not happen?? you should get the spotllight newspaper. plenty of bilderberg, tri lateral commission stuff in there. most of its really anti semitism in sheeps clothing. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Sparky you need to look at history. Our debt is not gonna hurt us one damn bit. We can and WILL balance the budget in these next few years. Republicans will have to come to the table in some way after we win reelection. Democrats are the ones that write balanced budgets. We had to save the economy by spending more in 09 and we did. Things are fine and to think the "system" is going to collapse is absolute poppycock my friend. Youre being sold doo doo Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 3 posts by Sparky in a row, and none of them any less condescending or crazy. So back to reality, I read this article on HuffPo and it really did amaze me, there is little or no foreign policy experience on Romney's ticket. I know it seems to be a bit of back burner to the economy, but we have to contend with Iran, North Korea, etc. It would be nice to have a bit of foreign policy experience on the ticket. The more and more I think about it, Ryan was not a smart choice. It sure does look like this is setting up for a 2016 run by Ryan. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/opinion/paul-ryans-fairy-tale-budget-plan.html?_r=1&hp Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Sparky you need to look at history. Our debt is not gonna hurt us one damn bit. We can and WILL balance the budget in these next few years. Republicans will have to come to the table in some way after we win reelection. Democrats are the ones that write balanced budgets. We had to save the economy by spending more in 09 and we did. Things are fine and to think the "system" is going to collapse is absolute poppycock my friend. Youre being sold doo doo Here's another nut case... Alan Simpson Confirms Reality: “All The Things You Love Will Not Come To Pass” "Let me tell you, ladies and gentlemen. Either you start to do something now, or pay me now or pay me later. This country is on a trajectory of debt, deficit and interest that is totally unsustainable, unconscionable and totally predictable. If everybody wants to talk about old people and the kiddies and use the stuff that Dave Axelrod will shower on the American people while Obama’s plan, pretty sweet — have a go at it. It is your country.” 'Medicare is on automatic pilot. It will use up every resource of the government and squeeze out all the things you mentioned. They will be completely squeezed out. The discretionary budget will be borrowed. We are borrowing $3.6 billion per day. For every dollar we spend, we are borrowing 41 cents. We owe $16 trillion and no one understands what that is. If you want to get to the old playbook out and use infrastructure, airplanes and all that stuff, that is great. You will not even see it because of what will happen with Medicare. You will not even perceive it. It will not come to pass. All the things you love will not come to pass.” “I have always said if you torture statistics long enough they will eventually confess. I was in Washington for 18 years and never saw any projection of any of economist ever come true in 18 years. The next year, greater growth will be this — never happened. This will happen — GDP. All you have to do is use the math. We don’t use Powerpoint. We do not use graphs. All use is your head. If you want to go into all of the horror stories using emotion, fear, guilt, racism, class warfare, you can kiss it off. It is your country.” http://bloom.bg/MTtgVS Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Boon, It doesn't matter what Ryan's plan, Obama's plan or Pat Paulson's plan is. They are not addressing the real causes of the financial mess we are in. They are just kicking the can down the road and maintaining the current failed system. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 3 posts by Sparky in a row, and none of them any less condescending or crazy. So back to reality, I read this article on HuffPo and it really did amaze me, there is little or no foreign policy experience on Romney's ticket. I know it seems to be a bit of back burner to the economy, but we have to contend with Iran, North Korea, etc. It would be nice to have a bit of foreign policy experience on the ticket. The more and more I think about it, Ryan was not a smart choice. It sure does look like this is setting up for a 2016 run by Ryan. Look, you asked me a question and I tried to answer it in a serious manner. Then you failed to acknowledge anything I posted. Then you go back to your Sparky's crazy shtick. Why bother? Link to post Share on other sites
gogo Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 condescending or crazy Remember folks, this was the one that we were going to keep respectful and civilized. Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Other than his childhood in Indonesia, what was Obamas foreign policy exposure? Link to post Share on other sites
gogo Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Not a lot. If I recall, Biden's experience on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee was considered one of his strengths, he bolstered the ticket in that way. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Not a lot. If I recall, Biden's experience on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee was considered one of his strengths, he bolstered the ticket in that way.And Romney is bolstering his conservative cred by putting an Ayn Randian on the ticket.Does no one realize that Ayn Rand wrote FICTION?I think if our society devolves further, it will be because of the constant undermining of the social contract. Too many people out for themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I didn't mean you any harm, I thought you knew and would get the joke... Fukushima radiation seen in tuna off California http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/28/us-japan-nuclear-tuna-idUSBRE84R0MF20120528 Tuna contaminated with Fukushima radiation found in California Scientists amazed that bluefins swimming in Pacific five months after Japanese disaster contained tiny amounts of caesium http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/29/tuna-contaminated-radiation-fukushima-california "The amount of radioactive cesium in the fish is not thought to be damaging to people if consumed..." Sparky, you're a well read guy. And as a fellow history teacher, I mean this sincerely. I worry for your students. I hope you do not try to instill fear, paranoia, and conspiracy into their minds the way you do into this board. Critical thinking, seeking out alternative media, and independent thought are things we agree upon, but that does not automatically lead to hidden conspiracies about deadly radiation or apocolyptic financial disaster around every corner. Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 The more and more I think about it, Ryan was not a smart choice. It sure does look like this is setting up for a 2016 run by Ryan. Politico also has an interesting article about the Ryan pick and how some GOP insiders are privately saying that the Romney team really screwed themselves. Instead of the election being a referendum on Obama's first term, it's now going to be about the Ryan budget plan and all the unpopular stuff in there like privatizing Social Security, cutting Medicare, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 So back to reality, I read this article on HuffPo and it really did amaze me, there is little or no foreign policy experience on Romney's ticket. That link doesn't seem to work, but a look over at Huffington Post of course reveals all kinds of tasty analysis about the latest. Boon, It doesn't matter what Ryan's plan, Obama's plan or Pat Paulson's plan is. They are not addressing the real causes of the financial mess we are in. They are just kicking the can down the road and maintaining the current failed system. So, neither candidate addresses your issues. Perhaps it would be best to start a new thread about upcoming financial meltdown. At this point a light-hearted analogy would be if I created a thread about: Who's better LCD Sound System, or Hot Chip? And you responded: "neither, they are both evidence of what is wrong with music". I'd say about one of those would be a good way to shake up the conversation, but at some point you're interested in a different thread. I find your more conversational posts to be interesting, but they have veered the conversation away from the intention of the thread. Remember folks, this was the one that we were going to keep respectful and civilized. Thanks gogo. I hope to keep this thread alive. Let's keep taking on ideas people, we can critique perspectives without insulting the people who hold them. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Look, you asked me a question and I tried to answer it in a serious manner. Then you failed to acknowledge anything I posted. Then you go back to your Sparky's crazy shtick. Why bother? Sorry Sparky, I frequently write posts and then delete them, I thought I commented on what you said to my inquiries. My bad. You appear to be a very thoughtful and you spend a lot of time trying to express your views. I really don't happen to agree with you. Others expressed counter arguments better then I could. And you even said you might take heat for being crazy, so I went with it. Joking aside, what you are suggesting is off the rails ask not very likely to happen. If come spring we are in a deep depression I will be the first to say I was wrong. But until then I am going to focus my time on the election and my interest in that. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 http://packetpushers.net/reactive-jobs-vs-proactive-jobs-the-time-management-struggle/children-hiding-under-desks-in-cold-war-drills Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 My students are just fine. Critical thinking and alternative history is what we lack. My conservative friends used to harass me for teaching about gun control in my Crime and Violence classes. I guess they were worried about my students too. I try to give my kids a wide variety of views on issues. They appreciate not getting the same old crap they get in every other class. Do yourself a favor and read up on how our monetary system actually works. I guarantee it will change your outlook on things and how you present topics in your classes in the future. What is wrong with telling the truth about our banking system? They can handle it. They actually grasp the concepts pretty well. Show them the clip from South Park when one of the characters deposits his money in the bank and Poof!! It's gone. Start there and build a nice lesson on fractional reserve banking and the creation of money out of debt and thin air. You can talk about bank runs, the FDIC and all sorts of good stuff. You'll have some fun. Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 So, neither candidate addresses your issues. Perhaps it would be best to start a new thread about upcoming financial meltdown. At this point a light-hearted analogy would be if I created a thread about: Who's better LCD Sound System, or Hot Chip? And you responded: "neither, they are both evidence of what is wrong with music". I'd say about one of those would be a good way to shake up the conversation, but at some point you're interested in a different thread. I find your more conversational posts to be interesting, but they have veered the conversation away from the intention of the thread.Agree. Sparky, I understand that you feel passionately about this and want to "educate" us and all, but it's quite tiresome for you to keep coming in here repeating the "they're all the same" mantra. Romney/Ryan and Obama/Biden are not the same. Does that mean you're wrong about shady dealings between business, government & the fed and the impending end-of-the-world financial doomsday? I have no clue. But the point is that this thread is about the 2012 presidential election (even though I still don't quite understand what "Respector Addition" means ). Link to post Share on other sites
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