General Political Thread

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I don't think you understand what is happening here. People aren't being dropped yet, they are being warned that their current policy will cease to exist as of the date that the law goes into effect. And the letters do offer alternate coverage -- it's a business and they'd be stupid to not offer coverage to current customers. You can read the letters yourself here.

 

Well, you're absolutely right: I did not understand what was happening. Based on the "apocalyptic" tone in the media, I sincerely believed that all these people complaining about being dropped had been dropped...just as I was by my car insurance company when I had Allstate. I wouldn't have put it past the insurance companies. They will send a cancellation notice at the drop of a hat, without warning and for no good reason. Nice way to treat customers.

 

So, the people whose plans are being eliminated may have to get a different plan. Wow, that is just heartbreaking! I think my employer has switched plans four times in the twelve years I have worked there. Every time, it was a shittier plan than the last one, and I found that doctors on the previous company's plan were not in the "new" company's network...so I could not "keep my doctor." Big fat hairy deal. I had to either switch doctors or suck it up and pay extra to go "out of network." I suspect that most of these whiny crybabies are conservative small business owners, who would happily bash Obama in the press given any opportunity. They probably could have gotten a better deal through the exchanges, but I guess since Obama caved and met with insurance execs, these people will get to keep their substandard plans. Talk about a tempest in a teapot.

 

Meanwhile, 50 million Americans will go to bed with NO insurance coverage tonight. Who speaks for them? As KevinG points out, it's quite funny how the GOP is now so concerned with that 5% when they obviously don't care about the (much larger) uninsured population and have no viable plan to help them. Of course, that's not even mentioning that the ACA was based on the conservative Heritage Foundation's ideas in the first place.

[John Smith]

"The president tried to claim that that would be the case, but it's now clear that it's untrue."

Are we talking about finding WMD in Iraq again? Or perhaps we are discussing "these tax cuts will pay for themselves"? Or "read my lips, no new taxes" Face it presidents say things that are either not true and they know it when they say it or believe it and it does not turn out the way it was intended. It happens all the time, this is not the first time something like this has happened.

 

Also I go back to what Paul Ryan said about Republicans writing a great portion of the law as well as them being the original source of the whole mandate idea, yet anger and vitriol from the right only gets directed at PBO. Seems like there were more cooks in the kitchen than are being acknowledged.  Then only reason this is being focused on is in order to arouse hatred of Obama.  Here we are a couple years into the republicans controlling the house and strangling the Senate and what have they proposed that is actually related to helping the economy? Nothing tthat I can think of.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/13/1710231/paul-ryan-makes-big-admission-republicans-helped-write-obamacare/

 

http://americablog.com/2013/10/original-1989-document-heritage-foundation-created-obamacares-individual-mandate.html

[Guest Don Draper]

taxpayers should never foot the bill for professional sporting stadiums unless they also own the team 

The Vikings thing is driving me up a wall.

Not least of all because they probably couldn't beat a blindfolded middle school team.

Face it presidents say things that are either not true and they know it when they say it or believe it and it does not turn out the way it was intended. It happens all the time, this is not the first time something like this has happened.

If I recall, Bush's 'no new taxes' line didn't lead to the death of tens of thousands of humans.

[lost highway]

 

If I recall, Bush's 'no new taxes' line didn't lead to the death of tens of thousands of humans.

 

But some of his other lines did.

[IRememberDBoon]

what about all the kids that can stay covered under their parents insurance and that extra income that will come to the insurance companies because of that mandate? I mean those folks under 25 don't really make that many health insurance claims do they?

[Hixter]

I really wonder, and I have mentioned this before, what the real cost of these new health plans are, and if in the long run they are actually more expensive.  To my knowledge there has been no critical analysis of plans, coverage, deductibles, etc.  For example say a current "junk" plan is less than an ACA market plan.  But your junk plan has a high deductible, lifetime limits, etc, in the long run it could be cheaper.

I've read dozens of such items in the news. Surely some people will better off if they qualify for federal subsidies, but there are also millions who will find their new plans more expensive and less comprehensive. Here's one I read the other day:

 

Last month, however, I received a letter from my insurance company informing me that my plan was “no longer available” due to “new requirements for health coverage under the Affordable Care Act.” I am being funneled into the closest equivalent plan under the new California health exchange, and my monthly premium is going to rise by nearly 43% to $214 a month.  

My old plan was as bare-bones as they came, so I assumed that even though the new plan would cost more, my coverage would improve under Obamacare, at least marginally.

 

It did not.

 

Under my old plan, my maximum out-of-pocket expense was $4,900. Under the new plan, I’m on the hook for up to $6,350. Copays for my doctor visits will double. For urgent-care visits, they will quadruple. Though slightly cheaper plans exist if I decide to shop around on the exchange, I will lose my dental coverage should I switch.

Needless to say, I am not pleased.  

 

As to the president's apology.  Is it not refreshing to see a president actually own up to his mistakes?

First of all, it wasn't a mistake -- it was a lie. He knew it every time he said it.

 

Secondly, the president's apology was nothing more than ass-covering for a bunch of Democrats who were furious about the Obamacare debacle and what it was doing to their reelection efforts.

 

Also, I do want to mention, that the current ACA discussion clear points out that the liberal media meme is false.

No it doesn't. Take a look at campaign donations made by media workers and organizations. 

[KevinG]

I've read dozens of such items in the news. Surely some people will better off if they qualify for federal subsidies, but there are also millions who will find their new plans more expensive and less comprehensive. Here's one I read the other day:

 

 

I have seen several stories like that as well, but it seems that every time an "Obamacare horror story" comes out it is quickly debunked, with very little investigative journalism.  So when I read ACA horror stories, you will have to excuse my skepticism.  But you know it easier to just print something without actually following up, or anything.  

 

No it doesn't. Take a look at campaign donations made by media workers and organizations. 

 

I don't think I have ever doubted that there are liberals in the media and quite possibly in a greater numbers then conservatives.  But what I have always questioned and refuted is that the media product is biased towards liberals and have an agenda to help democrats and the President.  This simply is not the case.  If it where there would me a hell of a lot more stories about ACA helping people.  But most of which has been ignored.  The media is out to make money.  I don't think they actually report the "news" anymore, they tell stories to sell advertisements.  

 

 

 

 

Secondly, the president's apology was nothing more than ass-covering for a bunch of Democrats who were furious about the Obamacare debacle and what it was doing to their reelection efforts.

 

 

I actually agree with you on this. 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Is the General Political Thread the appropriate place to post this, or do we need to create a separate George Zimmerman thread?

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-arrested-20131118,0,1837318.story

 

If he needs a new lawyer, I think there are at least one or two people who posted in this thread before who have done an excellent job defending Georgie-boy in the past. Thank God this freaking clown is off the streets for the time being. Serial wife/girlfriend beater, murderer, all around thug. Floridians will sleep a little better tonight, I think.

[KevinG]

Is the General Political Thread the appropriate place to post this, or do we need to create a separate George Zimmerman thread?

 

 

Yes we do, mostly so I can avoid it at all costs.  Then I do not need to waste my time ever thinking about this man again.

[Good Old Neon]

Is the General Political Thread the appropriate place to post this, or do we need to create a separate George Zimmerman thread?

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-arrested-20131118,0,1837318.story

 

If he needs a new lawyer, I think there are at least one or two people who posted in this thread before who have done an excellent job defending Georgie-boy in the past. Thank God this freaking clown is off the streets for the time being. Serial wife/girlfriend beater, murderer, all around thug. Floridians will sleep a little better tonight, I think.

Come on man, cut the dude a break - he's only been arrested and/or investigated like, 17 times now. I mean, who hasn't?

 

I think Hixter would take his case.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Well, I didn't want to mention any names, but...

[IRememberDBoon]

Hixter loves George Zimmerman and is glad he got rid of that thug Trayvon Martin!

[KevinG]

Hixter loves George Zimmerman and is glad he got rid of that thug Trayvon Martin!

Come on guys, this Hixter bashing is really unnecessary. There is no reason for it. I perfer to hear from the man himself. Putting words in his mouth is just wrong.

[Doug C]

Initially, I defended Zimmerman as far as understanding the Martin verdict in the light of the evidence presented, but this guy is clearly a nutter. I can't understand anyone defending his post-verdict actions. Divorces sometimes being crazy, relationships going wrong, the pressure he must be under, etc.... what more is needed for someone to put their hands up and say, "Okay, he was lucky that the situation that fateful night had an element of murkiness to it because he is an arsehole at best and a violent thug at worst."?

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I know that a great many people have defended Zimmerman, though for the life of me, I cannot understand why. Forget about the Martin family, I wonder how many women need to accuse this guy of domestic violence before we say, "Okay, where there's smoke, there's fire." In 2005, his former fiancee filed a restraining order against him for domestic violence. His soon-to-be-ex-wife called 911 on him, though she later changed her mind about pressing charges (probably a prudent move, given his proclivity for waving guns around and, you know, pulling the trigger). Now his new girlfriend is alleging more of the same, and he's being held on charges of aggravated assault, battery, and criminal mischief.

 

Of course, he gets on the phone and says it's not his fault. Wow, shocker. The big question is, will Daddy-the-Retired-Judicial-Officer find a way to get little Georgie off somehow? Let's sincerely hope not. This a-hole needs a timeout.

[bleedorange]

I think the big questions we're really missing here are:

 

How did this dude land a new girlfriend so quickly?

and

Has this new girlfriend not been paying attention to any news lately?

[Atticus]

seems like the bigger question is why people on a Wilco message board would be assholes to each other over the domestic squabbles of people they've never met. 

 

don't get me wrong, it's entertaining.  carry on.

[Lammycat]

I think the biggest question is: why has Bob Dylan refused to speak out or denounce his nephew?

[bleedorange]

seems like the bigger question is why people on a Wilco message board would be assholes to each other over the domestic squabbles of people they've never met. 

 

don't get me wrong, it's entertaining.  carry on.

 

That is a good question. Although, I guess it's Hixter's fault since he politely disagrees with the way most people on here think regarding politics.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

seems like the bigger question is why people on a Wilco message board would be assholes to each other over the domestic squabbles of people they've never met. 

 

don't get me wrong, it's entertaining.  carry on.

Well, we do talk about politics on this thread, and the politics of the George Zimmerman case - including all his domestic violence incidents - go far beyond race or gender. The guy has demonstrated, time and again, that he is a ticking time bomb. Of course, he also knows how to act soft and wimpy, which he immediately does as soon as he's confronted with his behavior. It's always somebody else's fault.

 

I think the biggest question is: why has Bob Dylan refused to speak out or denounce his nephew?

 

By the way: full disclosure, I live in Florida, and I really want this jackass off the street. He killed an unarmed teenager and has shown a pattern of abusive behavior towards women. I strongly believe that his "2nd Amendment rights" should be permanently revoked. At the very least, he needs a serious psychological eval, if not prison time.

[LouieB]

Zimmerman has a right to have a gun and a girl friend or have we forgotten this America?

 

For the life of me I can't figure out how he could land another intimate relationship? As for his gun ownership, I guess he gets to have one no matter what.

 

LouieB

[Lammycat]

How do guys in the clink land women? There are plenty of insecure and lonely and messed up females for everyone with shady histories to enjoy.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Yep, that is the long and short of it. There are plenty of women with low self-esteem looking for men to fix. "If I could just get him to _____, he would be perfect." Famous last words.

[LouieB]

Indeed. How long before he actually pops one of these women.

 

LouieB

[Doug C]

Yep, that is the long and short of it. There are plenty of women with low self-esteem looking for men to fix. "If I could just get him to _____, he would be perfect." Famous last words.

Yes, and unfortunately for those women, plenty of abusive "men" are looking for women with low self-esteem to control. It is much more these guys taking advantage of a certain type of woman than it is the woman putting up with abuse in the belief that their power to change the sociopath will one day win out.