General Political Thread

[Hixter]

It shows that both parties are unafraid of wielding the filibuster stick. It also shows that the number of attempts has actually been trending downward since the end of the Bush administration.

[Doug C]

So what? Neither party should filibuster or hold. Again I ask if you have any comment on the likelihood of the Republicans reinstating the "cherished rule of the Upper Chamber" when they are the majority party.

[Hixter]

Again I ask if you have any comment on the likelihood of the Republicans reinstating the "cherished rule of the Upper Chamber" when they are the majority party.

Since we're playing "screw you, we'll do as we like" these days in Washington, I'd expect the GOP to up the ante by including things like Supreme Court nominees -- accompanied by howls of protests from the other side of the aisle, of course.

[Doug C]

I agree with you. All of the blather the Republican party is saying about how this is "tyranny by the majority" that had been prevented by the "time-honored rules of the Senate", will prove to be just that, blather. As soon as they gain power, they won't return to the old rules, they'll change them further. As I said, it is a necessary change. Filibusters and holds serve no purpose other than to deny the American people the government that they voted for. If you want control of the Senate, then press your case better with the voters during the next election.

 

The nonsense with nominee filibusters and holds has gotten progressively worse. This morning on NPR, it was reported that there have been more now than during the last 60 years. You can't blame the party in power for finally having enough. I would have expected and welcomed the same from the Republicans if the roles were reversed. Within constitutional limits, I want the government to be governing, no matter the party.

[KevinG]

Hixter, you are fing with us right?  You can clear see that the non talking filibuster has been abused by the GOP.  Of course it has been used by the Dems and it was in the rules for a reason to stop the tyranny of the majority.  But IRBD's chart shows it has been abused during PBO's presidency.  Either you take the 72 (which they got by looking at the number of potential judicial vacancies in the next 3 years and figured the GOP would block all of them, because they really have not shown a willingness to confirm anyone), or take the actual number (which is nearly 4 times as many as during Bush).  It is staggering.  

 

There haven't been 72, there have been 27. The Dems are projecting a total of 45 over 2 terms (you can barely read it on the chart) but I don't know how they arrived at the figure.

 

Here's the chart and one generated by the Republicans:

 

 

 

 

From here.

 

And now this chart is really bullshit and honestly has no barring in this discussion.  When you filibuster a nominee they are neither confirmed nor rejected.  So this chart tells us nothing.

 

 

Another interesting chart:

 

 

You do realize this chart really emphasizes the fact that the GOP is abusing the non talking filibuster, right?  While the cloture vote is going down the 112th congress used it about 15 times more than time when the Dems where in the minority.  And also what this chart does not show is anything for the 113th congress, which thus far has 56 cloture motions (http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/113.shtml).  This is just for 11 months.  56 is about the same for 106th Congress over two years.  With the 56 cloture motions, 113th congress is on pace for 115 cloture motions which would be the highest ever.  Also it needs to be noted that Reid did not end cloture, he did just for judicial appointees.  It still can be used for legislation.

 

Listen, I liked the ability for cloture, I really felt that it could be used to prevent the tyranny of the majority.  But the GOP was using it for no good reason and abusing it.  So it had to be taken away.  It really is unfortunate and it sets a larger precedent for the future, which I do not like.  But it had to be done.   

[Winston Legthigh]

 

Listen, I liked the ability for cloture, I really felt that it could be used to prevent the tyranny of the majority.  But the GOP was using it for no good reason and abusing it.  So it had to be taken away.  It really is unfortunate and it sets a larger precedent for the future, which I do not like.  But it had to be done.   

?

 

Isn't cloture the ability to have a super-majority vote to make something filibuster proof? A cloture ends a filibuster, and can only be invoked by a majority. How does that prevent a tyranny of the majority?

[jff]

It shows that both parties are unafraid of wielding the filibuster stick. It also shows that the number of attempts has actually been trending downward since the end of the Bush administration.

Your math is wrong.  27 is bigger than 7 no matter how you slice it.

[bleedorange]

I think some people are confused as to what cloture is.

[bleedorange]

Here's a good column on what the number of cloture votes really means:

What Senate cloture votes tell us about obstruction

Essentially, it's an imperfect tool that is hard to perfectly determine whether the number of cloture votes is the result of a obstructionist minority or an impatient majority. Either way it definitely demonstrates the exceedingly fractious Senate and the degradation of political compromise.

[Atticus]

I never got closure with my ex-girlfriend Cortney.  I mean, not really.

[NoJ]

Cloture sounds like a pervy move in bed.

[Hixter]

Not very pleased with the deal we just made with Iran. Nothing good will come from it.

[Hixter]

Doubt anything good will come of this provocation by China, either.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I'm afraid that the Democrats will rue the day they used the nuclear option. They won't even have a moral high ground to fall back to whenever they lose control of the Senate.

[IRememberDBoon]

Not very pleased with the deal we just made with Iran. Nothing good will come from it.

great attitude! of course nothing will come of it. President Obama has something to do with it.

 

[IRememberDBoon]

I never got closure with my ex-girlfriend Cortney.  I mean, not really.

"I don't know wny I feel that way Cortney!!! I mean did we ever really get any cloture? (((tears up)))"

[Winston Legthigh]

Oh. Now I get it.

[Hixter]

great attitude! of course nothing will come of it. President Obama has something to do with it.

It's not an attitude, it's a prediction. And it's not because I dislike everything the president does, because I don't.

 

You know it's a bad deal when the Saudis and Israelis are cooperating on a military strike on Iran ...

[Guest Jules]

Whatever the deal was, I don't see why PBO had to be on TV at 10:30 on Saturday night. It was all very strange.

[Hixter]

Whatever the deal was, I don't see why PBO had to be on TV at 10:30 on Saturday night. It was all very strange.

"Stop talking about the Obamacare mess and start talking about this!" was probably a good portion of the rationale.

[Doug C]

I'm afraid that the Democrats will rue the day they used the nuclear option. They won't even have a moral high ground to fall back to whenever they lose control of the Senate.

Who cares? Whatever their motivation, the ruling party now rules. Democracy wins the day and future days. It is a Senate rule, not a constitutional requirement. The Republicans are free to reinstate it when they regain control. I'm am certain that they will, according to their rhetoric.

[IRememberDBoon]

Whatever the deal was, I don't see why PBO had to be on TV at 10:30 on Saturday night. It was all very strange.

Nothing really except we struck a deal with our mortal enemies that were supposedly part of the "Axis of Evil" ending 30 years of a stalemate.

but hey! Didn't you hear about the website problems with the ACA??!!!

 

[IRememberDBoon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHgkIiy9cv4&feature=player_detailpage

[Hixter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHgkIiy9cv4&feature=player_detailpage

Just ask her out already!

[Hixter]

Nothing really except we struck a deal with our mortal enemies that were supposedly part of the "Axis of Evil" who are the world's leading sponsor of international terrorism, ending 30 prolonging years of a stalemate over their nuclear weapons program, thereby buying them more time and handing over several billions of dollars to boot.

Fixed it for ya.