General Political Thread

[John Smith]

HMO's are primarily profit oriented, not care oriented. When I hear palin whining about death panels all I hear is her describing insurance co/HMO decision making processes in action, and that has been occurring for far longer than the ACA has been around and it's primarily profit driven.

 

So judging by this statement doctors and other medical professionals are in it for money mainly? Not for any desire to help or curiosity about how we work? And if for some reason the profits dry up there will be less people going into medicine? I wonder why people go into teaching? Social work? Religious studies and other low profit enterprises? Must not be able to put 2 and 2 together. Very cynical depressing viewpoint.

[Atticus]

I had an opportunity to catch up with my best friend from high school this weekend.  He's a surgeon, living in Texas.

 

He enlisted in the Air Force Reserves in '94 in order to get help paying for medical school.  He served a tour in Iraq, and until last year worked in military hospitals as a surgeon in several different locations around the world until his duty was up.  He moved to San Antonio to join a small practice that does a surgical specialty.  He is an incredibly bright guy who went to really good schools and has worked hard these past 19 years.

 

He told me that because of the way they get paid with insurance he is often living month to month right now, as far as income.  He and his wife have 4 kids.  They live in a nice house, they drive nice but certainly not flashy or "rich" cars.   It's time for the oldest to look at colleges and they're pretty frightened about their upcoming financial situation. 

 

While there are certainly some doctors who rake in lots of cash, there seems to be a mistaken perception in the country about doctors as a class (and several other professionals for that matter) making gobs and gobs of money.  This guy has put in the time and sweat and effort, he's got the skills and knowledge and talent.  Why shouldn't he be able to make some money?

 

But the fucked up dance they have to do with insurance companies is really something.  I was amazed at the process he detailed to me on an average surgery of his (doesn't get paid til at least 3 months down the road, never gets paid full amount, always has to overcharge in order to get something; often gets denied all or giant portion of a surgery charge if the company is dissatisfied with documentation or has difference in opinion about what procedure was needed, etc.).   So seriously fucked.  

[KevinG]

But the fucked up dance they have to do with insurance companies is really something.  I was amazed at the process he detailed to me on an average surgery of his (doesn't get paid til at least 3 months down the road, never gets paid full amount, always has to overcharge in order to get something; often gets denied all or giant portion of a surgery charge if the company is dissatisfied with documentation or has difference in opinion about what procedure was needed, etc.).   So seriously fucked.  

 

We have the best healthcare system in the world - John Boehner on Face the Nation July 1, 2012

[Atticus]

 

NORAH O'DONNELL: It's clear you oppose the individual mandate and yet your Republican nominee Mitt Romney came up with an individual mandate and proposed a tax penalty in Massachusetts. Does he have a credibility problem?

 

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: Listen, Governor Romney, just like all the rest of us Republicans in Washington, are going to work to repeal Obamacare and our resolve is stronger than ever with the passage or with the approval of the Supreme Court.

 

jesus

[Hixter]

I had an opportunity to catch up with my best friend from high school this weekend.  He's a surgeon, living in Texas.

 

He enlisted in the Air Force Reserves in '94 in order to get help paying for medical school.  He served a tour in Iraq, and until last year worked in military hospitals as a surgeon in several different locations around the world until his duty was up.  He moved to San Antonio to join a small practice that does a surgical specialty.  He is an incredibly bright guy who went to really good schools and has worked hard these past 19 years.

He sounds a lot like my friend/neighbor (also in San Antonio) who is on active duty in the Air Force as a neurosurgeon. He moonlights one or two weekends a month at a non-military hospital (he isn't allowed to operate on service members while moonlighting) and makes as much in a weekend as he makes in 6 weeks at his "real" job.  He's a great guy and I wouldn't begrudge him a dime after all the hard work he's put in. Just don't get him started on Obamacare ...

[Atticus]

when I asked my friend about Obamacare part of his response was that he and many of his fellow doctors are concerned that people will just pay the penalty and still not have insurance, and they'll (the doctors) still provide care knowing they'll never get paid for it.  at the same time, some of them are willing to try simply because of how fucked the current system is.

[John Smith]

Could someone articulate why doctors are against the ACA . From a practical standpoint it's an insurance law that should increase the pool of patients who would have the ability to pay. As noted above some May opt out and pay the penalty which results I'm maintaining the status-quo. I understand opposition from an ideological viewpoint but economically one would think doctors would favor the law.

[Hixter]

Could someone articulate why doctors are against the ACA .

Mostly, i think they see it as an unwelcome intrusion and hassle that will make their businesses more difficult and expensive to run. Government red tape is never any fun.

 

There's also the fact that we have a shortage of physicians and (potentially) adding tens of millions of new patients will make things even worse.

[John Smith]

Red tape? From processing more insurance from patients? I can see that in a way but I think the deal is more ideological, but that's just a guess on my part. Though the ideological angle escapes me since it is a conservative plan, heck Paul Ryan even gave a largely ignored interview a few months ago where he said the republicans wrote large parts of the law.

 

I wonder where pharmacists, physical therapists, nurse practitioners etc ... Stand on it. And once again I gave to say that if the law is hiking to be a huge disaster then republicans should let it go as it will ensure them control of all three branches of government for a long time...or until they overreach again.

[tinnitus photography]

I produce solutions on my front end

 

I produce precipitates out of my back end.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I had an opportunity to catch up with my best friend from high school this weekend.  He's a surgeon, living in Texas.

 

He enlisted in the Air Force Reserves in '94 in order to get help paying for medical school.  He served a tour in Iraq, and until last year worked in military hospitals as a surgeon in several different locations around the world until his duty was up.  He moved to San Antonio to join a small practice that does a surgical specialty.  He is an incredibly bright guy who went to really good schools and has worked hard these past 19 years.

 

He told me that because of the way they get paid with insurance he is often living month to month right now, as far as income.  He and his wife have 4 kids.  They live in a nice house, they drive nice but certainly not flashy or "rich" cars.   It's time for the oldest to look at colleges and they're pretty frightened about their upcoming financial situation. 

 

While there are certainly some doctors who rake in lots of cash, there seems to be a mistaken perception in the country about doctors as a class (and several other professionals for that matter) making gobs and gobs of money.  This guy has put in the time and sweat and effort, he's got the skills and knowledge and talent.  Why shouldn't he be able to make some money?

 

But the fucked up dance they have to do with insurance companies is really something.  I was amazed at the process he detailed to me on an average surgery of his (doesn't get paid til at least 3 months down the road, never gets paid full amount, always has to overcharge in order to get something; often gets denied all or giant portion of a surgery charge if the company is dissatisfied with documentation or has difference in opinion about what procedure was needed, etc.).   So seriously fucked.  

A guy who can afford to have four kids in the first place and also live in a nice house with nice cars has no business complaining about his financial situation. What kind of work does his wife do, I wonder?

I have worked in the health care industry for the past twelve years, and met and had dinners with many ophthalmologists, pain management specialists, dentists, physical therapists and so on. They are hardly struggling. One guy, who is a dentist in the Sarasota area, spends $2 million dollars per year on marketing alone. I have also seen many of their trophy wives, all plastic surgeried out. They sit around at dinner talking about their hobbies (yachting) and whatnot. They are part of the ruling class, and if the insurance companies are screwing them, then too bad. The insurance companies are screwing all of us patients too. Maybe if people didn't charge a thousand dollars an hour, things would be a little different.

They are also the most well respected profession in the country, ahead of professors. So they don't break my heart when I hear them complain.

[Atticus]

A guy who can afford to have four kids in the first place and also live in a nice house with nice cars has no business complaining about his financial situation. What kind of work does his wife do, I wonder?

 

 

I didn't say he was complaining about his financial condition.  He's concerned.

 

I see no reason why a doctor shouldn't make a very good living, if he's put in the hours and effort it takes to become a good surgeon.  

 

Just because you know some dentists and doctors who are loaded assholes doesn't mean all doctors are making giant bank.

 

interesting response.

[IRememberDBoon]

 

Mostly, i think they see it as an unwelcome intrusion and hassle that will make their businesses more difficult and expensive to run. Government red tape is never any fun.

 

There's also the fact that we have a shortage of physicians and (potentially) adding tens of millions of new patients will make things even worse.

yer serious Clark?

 

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

A guy who can afford to have four kids in the first place and also live in a nice house with nice cars hano business complaining s about his financial situation. What kind of work does his wife do, I wonder?

 

 

I wanted to read this again  to see if it was as bad as it seemed in the original post.

 

It is.

[lost highway]

Take the profit away your bright young students will chose to go into something other than medicine.

 

That is so easily disproved by the health care systems of so many other countries.

 

Following that line of thinking, public education should be full of dumb-dumbs or those pesky foreigners you mentioned.

[Hixter]

yer serious Clark?

Is that a movie quote or something that I don't get?

[calvino]

I believe the Clark bit is from the Vacation (Chevy Chase) movies --- with regards to

 

There's also the fact that we have a shortage of physicians and (potentially) adding tens of millions of new patients will make things even worse.

 

if you believe in capitalism -- the market will correct itself soon enough.

[Hixter]

if you believe in capitalism -- the market will correct itself soon enough.

It takes 11 or 12 years of college and residency to produce a medical doctor, so it can't happen all that soon.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I wanted to read this again  to see if it was as bad as it seemed in the original post.

 

It is.

I spent 5 and a half years obtaining my Bachelor's and Master's degrees and I have 12 years of experience in my field, which is a demanding one...but I will be lucky if I can ever afford to have more than one child. So yeah, I don't sit around feeling sorry for ANY doctors or dentists and their financial situations. Maybe if the guy's wife got a job, they would have fewer "concerns."

[Hixter]

I spent 5 and a half years obtaining my Bachelor's and Master's degrees

Doctors spend twice that much time and rack up close to half a million dollars in in expenses by the time it's all over. They also pay up to $200,000 per year for insurance. Considering the fact that they save lives every day, I think they're paid what they're worth.

[Winston Legthigh]

It took me 11 years to get my bachelor's degree. I'm fairly compensated. 

[Beltmann]

There's also the fact that we have a shortage of physicians and (potentially) adding tens of millions of new patients will make things even worse.

 

I keep hearing this argument, and while it appears rooted in pragmatism, I can't help but feel that it's rooted more squarely in the assumption that I got mine, screw everybody else is a reasonable way to think about health care in a prosperous nation.  Do we really want to make the exclusive-club argument that it's better to not care for our fellow Americans if it means that the rest of us might have to compromise a little to do so?  "You know, I'd prefer millions of people to stay untreated just so my own health care remains untouched."

 

I have really nice insurance through my employer.  I like my insurance.  It's really good at keeping healthy people happy, including me.  However, I would consider it a privilege to sacrifice a bit--whether in terms of taxes or wait times or deductibles or whatever--in order to extend similar coverage to my fellow Americans who right now, often through no fault of their own, are not able to access proper care.

[Hixter]

I got mine, screw everybody else is a reasonable way to think about health care

How in the world did you get that from what I wrote?

[Beltmann]

I wasn't totally clear: I certainly don't think it was your intention to imply that; I was responding to that general argument as it has often been presented over the last few years.

[John Smith]

By Directly correlating the number of current patients being served by the current number of doctors as being adequate and the ACA adding more patients to the waiting lines while the number of doctors seems to remain static or not keep pace with the number of patients. It's implied in your statement.

 

Actually the number of patients does not change, what changes is the number of patients who can pay and who will seek out care. You want to lower medical costs in this country? Get more preventative care going. It cost far more to treat an illness than to prevent it.