John Wesley Harding

[mchchef1]

I love this album because it represents a big change in dylans recording style. Just after the break through BonB and his first greatest hits album, I think of it as his most stripped down and simple albums. NS next with johny cash the misdirected diversity of Self portrait(which i love) on into the horn players and famous gutiar players into the 70 and 80's to me it was the last of a realitivly younge bob paying homage to from whence he came?

The moral to this story

the moral to this song

is simply that one should never be

where one does not belong

[mjpuczko]

yeah, i always thought the explanation was in the song. one of the only dylan songs that's easy to figure out.

[Sir Stewart]

The whole album (except "Down Along the Cove", which I always think is on Nashville Skyline) finds Dylan tapped into this God-fearing American pioneer vein which I find intoxicating.

[mchchef1]

yeah, i always thought the explanation was in the song. one of the only dylan songs that's easy to figure out.

Yeah, Idiot Wind has always escaped me, is he saying shes stupid?

It Aint me babe WHAT COULD IT ALL MEAN??

I think a hard rain is going to fall fall might be anti Viet Nam

To be alone with you

Yea I see what you mean

Edited July 27, 2006 by mchchef1

[mjpuczko]

one of, fucko. i didn't say the only one.

[Sir Stewart]

That post sucked, chef.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Easy, kiddies. Don't make me close this thread on you.

[Synthesizer Patel]

the moral to this story

the moral to this song

is simply that one should never be

where one does not belong

 

 

yeah, i always thought the explanation was in the song. one of the only dylan songs that's easy to figure out.

 

here is what a couple of people posted on one of those sites showing lyrics.

 

well frankie lee and judas priest, although being the best of friends seem to be opposites. frankie the gambler, who's father is deceased... Judas, who quickly pulled out a roll of tens and said 'my loss will be your gain'...

 

so my real question for this, is what is the house?

i see it as either a bordello or a church. both could have 4 and 20 women's face in every one (stained glass images vs whores)... perhaps it was the church, and judas died from not drinking the holy water -- but would frankie lee run up the stairs of a church in soulful bounding leaps ? i think not. perhaps he spent all his time getting off he forgot to drink....but why would judas find himself at a bordello ?

 

either way, the most important person in this song is the little neighbour boy that carried frankie lee to rest.... why is he guilty? perhaps for writing a song where nothing is revealed ?

 

good moral though... and I suppose it reveals everything that need be revealed, we should help the neighbour boy carry frankie lee in jest. i imagine there two houses facing eachother -- both the bordello and church -- neither of them is paradise, but both of which can be considered home.

 

has anyone else noticed the connection to rainy day women (nos 12 & 35)?

 

the whole 420 theory about marijuana?

12 x 35 = 420.

 

and this song has the line:

 

With four and twenty windows

And a woman's face in ev'ry one.

 

rainy day women?

a woman's face in every one?

420?

four and twenty windows?

 

is this song about frankie lee's addiction?

are they both about weed?

 

The second quote doesn't make too much sense, but the first quote is fairly interesting.

[froggie]

apart from the shrill harmonica, i give it a big

[John Smith]

I've always ranked JWH in my top fie for studio releases by Bob. Though I have to quantify that by noting that I am not a fanatic, and never try to sit and decipher lyrics, for any band actually. If I get them I get them if not no big deal. It does nto make the music better even when I fully understand what they are saying or trying to say. I get out of it what I think they are saying and leave it at that.

[Basil II]

My favorite Phil Ochs albums are.....

 

 

-"All The news that's fit to sing"

 

-"Greatest Hits"

 

-"Rehersals for Retirement"

 

 

 

If you like bob's early stuff....do yourself a favor and listen to Phil Ochs.........For a very brief moment, he was the superior song writer.......

 

 

OK, end of hijack......

 

-Robert.

[TheMaker]

Bound for Glory is one of the great folk songs of all time.

[MattZ]

My take on Frankie Lee, and basically the album as a whole, is that it is a deep and dark exploration of biblical themes and struggles played against the struggles of average Americans. Church vs. whorehouse/gambling/prostitution in Frankie Lee; the Poor Immigrant who simultaneously hates his life and fears his death; Dear Landlord -- please dont put a price on my soul; St Augustine ends with him alone, terrified and bowing his head and crying; John Wesley Harding -- a friend to the poor.

 

I am not religious at all, but the themes are just too powerful to ignore. The twang of the songs (maybe intentionally?) divert your attention from the heaviness of the subject matter. But these are not light songs. I have never been able to pin down any specific message or point that he is trying to make (I don't think Franke Lee actually means anything, but it says an awful lot about a lot of things subtley). Its a snapshot, basically. Like Desolation Row, maybe?

 

Simply put, its a masterful album.

[P Dub]

It's one of his masterpieces! With Sgt. Pepper and Their Satanic being released earlier that year, JWH was Bob's reply. All the songs are beautifully performed. I love the album cover...brown and gray, and very simple. Without JWH, would we have gotten The White Album or Beggar's Banquet as soon as we did?

[LouieB]

The twang of the songs (maybe intentionally?) divert your attention from the heaviness of the subject matter.

The songs "twang" because they were done with Nashville session musicians...the twang was intentional, but not as a diversion, but because that is the way those guys played.

 

LouieB

[MattZ]

The songs "twang" because they were done with Nashville session musicians...the twang was intentional, but not as a diversion, but because that is the way those guys played.

 

LouieB

 

My point was that Dylan obviously chose the direction that the tunes and the album took. I know JWH was a reaction to SgtPepper et al. But people (including folks in this thread) brush off these songs as "light" when I think they are anything but. Dylan could have wrapped these songs in electric bluesy feedback to let the music mimic the feel of the tunes (Hendrix/All Along the Watchtower, anyone??). But he decided not to.

 

JWH was obviously a backlash against Sgt Pepper. JWH was obviously an album about getting back to roots. My only point was that Dylan wrapped pretty heavy songs in twang. Of course it was done intentionally. It was his decision. But I was suggesting that maybe part of this decision was to divert attention from the subject matter of the tunes.

 

I once read an interview with him about Idiot WInd. I know you cant believe anything he says, but he claimed that the first verse of the song was a purposeful throwaway verse to confuse people since the rest of the song is so personal. ("she inherited a million bucks...")

 

Lou - your reply makes it sounds like Dylan walked into a studio and *POOF* a twangy album got made because he happened to luck into Nashvlle session musicians. All I meant is that he chose those musicians intentionally, and perhaps, it was to divert some attention.

Edited July 28, 2006 by MattZ

[Synthesizer Patel]

Lou - your reply makes it sounds like Dylan walked into a studio and *POOF* a twangy album got made because he happened to luck into Nashvlle session musicians. All I meant is that he chose those musicians intentionally, and perhaps, it was to divert some attention.

 

He used the same two session musicians (Charlie McCoy & Kenny Buttrey) on Blonde on Blonde and McCoy also appeared on Highway 61 Revisted, don't know about Bringing It All Back Home, but I wouldn't be surprised (oh, they are also both on Nashville Skyline, which again isn't exactly the same sound as JWH). So you are totally right in one sense for picking them to make the sound, but it wasn't a case of them being people that he called on to make a particular sound because otherwise all those other albums would sound the same. They don't though. It is also interesting to note that they did plan on overdubbing afterward with Robbie Robertson & Garth Hudson, but it was thought that the stripped down sound couldn't be improved on.

[mchchef1]

yeah, i always thought the explanation was in the song. one of the only dylan songs that's easy to figure out.

 

 

one of, fucko. i didn't say the only one.

You did say ONE OF THE ONLY Cudos on fucko, a great word lost in today vernacular

 

That post sucked, chef.

I'm finally starting to get some respect around here!

 

I was only saying I think the beauty of a lot of bob's songs is the simplicity, and people want to make it more complicated than it is! A man much wiser than I once said There is a Dylan quote for every situation you face in life.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

My favorite Phil Ochs albums are.....

-"All The news that's fit to sing"

 

-"Greatest Hits"

 

-"Rehersals for Retirement"

If you like bob's early stuff....do yourself a favor and listen to Phil Ochs.........For a very brief moment, he was the superior song writer.......

OK, end of hijack......

 

-Robert.

Hijack seconded!

[Atticus]

Question to all:

 

What resource or resources do you all typically consult when determining the release date of many of these albums (e.g. JWH coming out around St. Peppers, etc.), as well as the participants (from session players to producers, engineers, etc). Are there some definitive sites with reliable information, or do you generally just cull the info from several different sources?

 

--Neil

[Is Chicago Is Not Chicago]

My take on Frankie Lee, and basically the album as a whole, is that it is a deep and dark exploration of biblical themes and struggles played against the struggles of average Americans. Church vs. whorehouse/gambling/prostitution in Frankie Lee; the Poor Immigrant who simultaneously hates his life and fears his death; Dear Landlord -- please dont put a price on my soul; St Augustine ends with him alone, terrified and bowing his head and crying; John Wesley Harding -- a friend to the poor.

 

I am not religious at all, but the themes are just too powerful to ignore. The twang of the songs (maybe intentionally?) divert your attention from the heaviness of the subject matter. But these are not light songs. I have never been able to pin down any specific message or point that he is trying to make (I don't think Franke Lee actually means anything, but it says an awful lot about a lot of things subtley). Its a snapshot, basically. Like Desolation Row, maybe?

 

Simply put, its a masterful album.

 

very well put!

[LouieB]

Lou - your reply makes it sounds like Dylan walked into a studio and *POOF* a twangy album got made because he happened to luck into Nashvlle session musicians. All I meant is that he chose those musicians intentionally, and perhaps, it was to divert some attention.

. So you are totally right in one sense for picking them to make the sound, but it wasn't a case of them being people that he called on to make a particular sound because otherwise all those other albums would sound the same. They don't though. It is also interesting to note that they did plan on overdubbing afterward with Robbie Robertson & Garth Hudson, but it was thought that the stripped down sound couldn't be improved on.

I dont really believe that JWH was a reaction to Sgt Peppers, I just think it is what he wanted to do at the time, after having done some relatively twangy stuff on the Basement Tapes. Certainly the material appears to be a reaction to the entire more rock oriented music of the day, but things were beginning to shift a bit more country in 67 and 68 anyway with Sweetheart of the Rodeo and what would become the first wave of country rock not long after that. Dylan was certainly reacting, but it was to much more than one Beatle album

 

As far as Highway 61 and BonB, those guys were on that too, but so were alot of other musicians as well. Twang was on its way by the time JWH was recorded and we are all better off for it having arrived. Many in the folk community were turning to country session players to augment their recordings (Ian and Sylvia, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Judy Collins, etc.)

 

Over the years I have recommended "Any Day Now" by Joan Baez, which I realize alot of people dislike here, but she covered some of these songs masterfully, as well as others by Dylan with some of those same Nashville session musicians.

 

And not to mix apples and oranges here, one of the best albums to use these same musicians is Thinking of Woody Guthrie by Country Joe McDonald...great album utilizing these same Nashville cats.

 

LouieB

[LouieB]

What resource or resources do you all typically consult when determining the release date of many of these albums (e.g. JWH coming out around St. Peppers, etc.), as well as the participants (from session players to producers, engineers, etc). Are there some definitive sites with reliable information, or do you generally just cull the info from several different sources?

Sometimes the artists themselves have good websites, but usually Wikopedia has relatively correct discographies. (In the case of these albums I was actually alive at the time.)

 

LouieB

[froggie]

i forgot to add (cause i was sober when i lost posted), that i remember the day i bought this on vinyl.

i thought that since vinyl can have a slightly different mix, the harp might be a bit easier on the ears - it wasnt though.

 

i was walking out of a video library 8 years ago and i was swinging the plastic bag that had the vinyl in it... hot stuffy day. within 5 minutes, the sunshine turned into a mega thunderstorm

 

i wondeer if that was an omen with themes of the album?

[Analogman]

Janis Joplin did a great version of Dear Landlord.