The Walrus Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 In regards to the DVD... Does anyone know if there's easter eggs on it--and, if so, how do you access them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 If the criticism reads good, read it, and if you don't like it, don't read it. It's all just a matter of opinion. Yeah, no one has to respect it. But there is a fairly legitimate way to decide the weight of criticism (one of the very few things I learned in college): 1. Does it make a clear statement about what it describes, and 2. does it site evidence to support its statement. Rolling Stone still has some great journalism in it, it unfortunately also has a rundown of the hottest new looks and all the gossip you might want on Courtney Love and Pamela Anderson. As far as I am trying.... I hope someone can reccomend another rock doc, with as much of an intimate view of the creative process. (Don't Look Back aside). Gimmee Shelter is world famous, for very different reasons, but one cant help but thirst for more scenes like doing the final mix for Wild Horses in the studio. IATTBYH delivers in this sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Yeah, no one has to respect it. But there is a fairly legitimate way to decide the weight of criticism (one of the very few things I learned in college): 1. Does it make a clear statement about what it describes, and 2. does it site evidence to support its statement.Critical theory was my specialty in college, so I definitely agree with you, and would add that I totally believe in the function--and yes, even the artistry--of thoughtful, knowledgeable criticism. For me, though, there's really only one real reason to read criticism, and that's to discover rich observations about a work that I might have overlooked. As Pauline Kael said, "We read critics for the perceptions, for what they tell us that we didn't fully grasp when we saw the work. The judgments we can usually make for ourselves." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Hardy Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hey all, let's sit back and enjoy a beer or two... Alright, here we go... First off, I know Wilco isn't an "indie" band. Yes, they are quite popular, and many folks have at least heard of them. But, are they as popular as, say, 9/10 of what Rolling Stone readers read about every other week? Yes, Rolling Stone writes for what's currently popular, and, I'll admit, SOME articles are well constructed, well perceived, etc. But, will we see: "Jeff Tweedy: The Rolling Stone Interview" anytime soon? Probably not. That is, unless Wilco has an album coming out, and they have run out of ideas for cover stories. So, by "Indie", I mean you're not likely to hear about this band in a big, major magazine like Rolling Stone until a new album is released, and/or reviewed. But other bands like Fall Out Boy, Evanescence (sp?), AFI, etc. are getting articles left and right because more people (teenagers) listen to that music more than they listen to Wilco. Secondly, the reason I'm not too keen on David Fricke is because any single one of us can do his job. Get an advance copy of _____ new album... Listen to it a few times.... And say yay, or nay. That goes for any reviewer of any magazine. I will admit that Mr. Fricke has, in the past, written great articles, and I'll also admit that he has a great ear for writing, so-to-speak. But just because he loves/dislikes an album does not mean that we all agree with him. Oh, and somebody mentioned that I'm a "Newbie". Yep, you're right, I am a newbie to these boards, just like everyone else on these boards were at one point. But I am not a newbie to music, Wilco related or otherwise, and I look forward to discussing music on these boards with all of you in the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hey all, let's sit back and enjoy a beer or two... Alright, here we go... First off, I know Wilco isn't an "indie" band. Yes, they are quite popular, and many folks have at least heard of them. But, are they as popular as, say, 9/10 of what Rolling Stone readers read about every other week? Yes, Rolling Stone writes for what's currently popular, and, I'll admit, SOME articles are well constructed, well perceived, etc. But, will we see: "Jeff Tweedy: The Rolling Stone Interview" anytime soon? Probably not. That is, unless Wilco has an album coming out, and they have run out of ideas for cover stories. So, by "Indie", I mean you're not likely to hear about this band in a big, major magazine like Rolling Stone until a new album is released, and/or reviewed. But other bands like Fall Out Boy, Evanescence (sp?), AFI, etc. are getting articles left and right because more people (teenagers) listen to that music more than they listen to Wilco. Secondly, the reason I'm not too keen on David Fricke is because any single one of us can do his job. Get an advance copy of _____ new album... Listen to it a few times.... And say yay, or nay. That goes for any reviewer of any magazine. I will admit that Mr. Fricke has, in the past, written great articles, and I'll also admit that he has a great ear for writing, so-to-speak. But just because he loves/dislikes an album does not mean that we all agree with him. Oh, and somebody mentioned that I'm a "Newbie". Yep, you're right, I am a newbie to these boards, just like everyone else on these boards were at one point. But I am not a newbie to music, Wilco related or otherwise, and I look forward to discussing music on these boards with all of you in the future.Well put. I'll look forward to discussions in the future JH. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Secondly, the reason I'm not too keen on David Fricke is because any single one of us can do his job. Get an advance copy of _____ new album... Listen to it a few times.... And say yay, or nay. That goes for any reviewer of any magazine.I think the best critics--the ones worth reading--do much more than simply pass judgment, and I think there are quite a few out there producing quality writing. The trick is finding them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willkoman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Well, actually your post is filled with inaccuracies, but your gusto sure echoes all the lame uber-critical negativity that overwhelms music criticism today, of which you say you dislike. See attached link: http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/240156/being_there That is actually the review RollingStone gave "Being There" and I remember reading it at the time...it getting the coveted first review and prime billing. You'll notice they actually name drop "No Depression" in the review. This review was actually written by Greg Kot of IATTBYH fame and is informative and well-written. In RollingStone no Wilco record ever received less than 3 and 1/2 stars and Primus' "Pork Soda" received 3 stars actually. Personally, I find Gret Kot much more annoying (due to an obvious personal bias, which is fine, but shouldn't be presented as objective) than David Fricke in the movie who I think makes some very valid points about consumer culture and evolving (or devolving) musical trends. To my knowledge, no one ever came up with the source of his alleged quote about Wilco being the best band of all time. I can't understand why there's all the hate thrown out at Fricke and RollingStone unless it stems from a "we're cooler than that" attitude. I'll grant that RollingStone has rightly taken a credibility hit over the last few years due to changing their format (shorter articles for flagging attention spans (hello Fricke)) and always putting the latest scantily clad, movie-star nimphette on the cover, but if you actually look inside the magazine and move beyond the tired littany of "RollingStone sucks man" comments, you'll find some of the best News writing and important political coverage out there right now. I don't think it's a case of all or nothing...but if you look under the cover there are some redeemable parts to the magazine. The leader of a band called Wilco seems to find something of value in RollingStone. He references one of their articles on the Hotel S n' S recording. I could keep on going, but I think I'll just leave it at that. Stepping down from my soapbox now. Nice post. I remember Being There getting four stars. Yo John Hardy, you can't get away with any bull s**t on VC. It just doesn't fly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
truetolife Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 For me, though, there's really only one real reason to read criticism, and that's to discover rich observations about a work that I might have overlooked. As Pauline Kael said, "We read critics for the perceptions, for what they tell us that we didn't fully grasp when we saw the work. The judgments we can usually make for ourselves." Great post! You hit the nail on the head, I find these statments very true for myself regarding criticism. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brgriffi Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Critical theory was my specialty in college, so I definitely agree with you, and would add that I totally believe in the function--and yes, even the artistry--of thoughtful, knowledgeable criticism. For me, though, there's really only one real reason to read criticism, and that's to discover rich observations about a work that I might have overlooked. As Pauline Kael said, "We read critics for the perceptions, for what they tell us that we didn't fully grasp when we saw the work. The judgments we can usually make for ourselves." Exactly! And that's why I come to internet message boards to discuss music and movies. You're going to get new perspectives that may make you think about a piece of work in a completely new light. Secondly, the reason I'm not too keen on David Fricke is because any single one of us can do his job. Get an advance copy of _____ new album... Listen to it a few times.... And say yay, or nay. That goes for any reviewer of any magazine. I will admit that Mr. Fricke has, in the past, written great articles, and I'll also admit that he has a great ear for writing, so-to-speak. But just because he loves/dislikes an album does not mean that we all agree with him. There's a little bit more to "good" criticism than just saying whether you like it or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lovenmercy Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Whew! You pedantic ones sure do like to pick at each other! Anyway...documentary=goodextras=bettermusic mags/critics=interesting at the leastI own and like the dvd, and I'm glad it's getting some airtime! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tugmoose Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yips, did I post that? Anyways, dropped in the extras while doing the nordictrak before work today. favorite part is still the 10 or so seconds it takes for Jeff to respond to New York Fan In The Street with "Oh, yeah?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magnetized Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 There's a new thread on the AV Club's website about rock documentaries and this is the choice of the day: http://www.avclub.com/articles/a-documentary-about-wilco-found-the-bandand-the-mu,93314/# The write up is short and nothing special, but it has inspired a huge number of comments, some of which are pretty illuminating. Definitely not the usual bunch of flaming insults that you can get in a comments section. Boy, there sure are a lot of Wilco obsessives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Boy, there sure are a lot of Wilco obsessives.You're telling us? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Good movie. Got to see it at an opening in Chicago at the Music Box. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magnetized Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 You're telling us? I know, but sometimes I slip into thinking it's JUST us. But no. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Just us? Ask your fellow fans sometime (as I have) if they are on VC and many have never heard of this place. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 So what is the next level up after "obsessive?" Apparently, we are it. Ha! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Just us? Ask your fellow fans sometime (as I have) if they are on VC and many have never heard of this place. LouieB True. I've had that experience many times, too. VC is no measure of the world of Wilco obsessives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Tatlock Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Watching this tonight. It's been longer than I can remember. Started with the extras and I think I'll do the main feature with the band comments audio. I think I only watched it that way once. The "Beep beep" line I remember fondly but not much else. It will also be the first time I've seen it on a widescreen TV, so I'll get to see all the bits at the edges I've missed before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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