Gobias Industries Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Who cares about "Forget the Flowers"? "I'll make you forget yer flowers" Cline's overall versatility trumps Bennett's singular skills in one area. also, Cline knows what it takes to play in a group. he's the quintessential orchestral player. Bennett? More like a solo man, who doesn't know how to turn himself down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
You Can Be The Stone Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Also, honestly, I think given some time, Pat could outsource the Bennett niche of guitar style. He's been kind of kept to the keyboards a lot of the time, but of what I've seen from his guitar work, pretty impressive, especially "Hoodoo Voodoo". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam2 Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I agree that Nels plays his style better than Jay (obviously) and he sounds good in Wilco. It just bothers me that fans of Nels won't admit that he can't play the old stuff anywhere near as good as Jay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilco LP #7 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I didn't like this article at all. Wilco hasn't published any studio songs with Cline in the band, how the hell can the band be broken into pre- and post- Cline eras?? I also like the HiC solo waaaay more on the studio recording, as i do the song in general. Greg Kot's book wasn't shitty, it displayed far more writing ability than whoever wrote this shit did with his article. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I didn't like this article at all. Wilco hasn't published any studio songs with Cline in the band, Just a Kid Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pecan_Pie Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Nels can play the older stuff just as well as Jay could. It's just different. Different people. Nels is a better guitarist either way, but Jay could make quite a sonic landscape. But I thought you wanted the monkey in there going "OOO AHAHH!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilco LP #7 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Just a Kid Sorry dude, I guess I forgot about that earth shattering affair. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam2 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Nels can play the older stuff just as well as Jay could. It's just different. Different people. Nels is a better guitarist either way, but Jay could make quite a sonic landscape. But I thought you wanted the monkey in there going "OOO AHAHH!" Honestly, listen to Jay's playing on Forget The Flowers. His Keith Richards-esque guitar on Monday. His Someday Soon. His Kingpin. Summerteeth. Most of the time Nels just does some ill-fated lap steel. He can't play the old stuff anywhere near as good as Jay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Honestly, listen to Jay's playing on Forget The Flowers. His Keith Richards-esque guitar on Monday. His Someday Soon. His Kingpin. Summerteeth. Most of the time Nels just does some ill-fated lap steel. He can't play the old stuff anywhere near as good as Jay. You can't accept the fact that Nels is just a better orchestral player than Jay could ever be. Nels plays lap steel to enhance the music, trying to construe the lyrics through his lap steel. Jay just wants to cover Tweedy up, play some "rock" lick that may sound cool, but doesn't help show what Tweedy wants to show in the music. Nels plays collectively, Jay does not. It's as simple as that. Being one with extensive orchestral experience, I can attest to this. And I think most of us here value the collective product itself than the parts themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam2 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 you can't accept the fact that there are areas where Jay is better than Nels. i assume you have ears, since you are "one with extensive orchestral experience". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Sorry dude, I guess I forgot about that earth shattering affair. wasn't saying wether the song was good or not, just pointing it out as a studio recording, made by the band w/ Nels (and Pat) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 you can't accept the fact that there are areas where Jay is better than Nels. i assume you have ears, since you are "one with extensive orchestral experience". I never said Nels was better in all genres. I said overall he's a better guitar player. You misinterpret with malicious intent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I have seen this thing go back and forth on this board for a year, and I can't help but get involved everytime. To be really impartial (as if thats possible, you may already know who I favor) stack up the Geraldine Fibbers, or the Nels Cline Singers against ANY Jay Bennett solo release. I will tell you what I think about that contest, but I want to hear your opinions first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Does it matter who is best? If it did,I probably never would listen to anything other than John McLaughlin albums.I'd like to read a 'celebrity death match' w/ Cline vs. Bennett like the Ryan Adams/JT one from awhile back Oh well...I do have a Cline Singers show that truly blew my mind,I must say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I have seen this thing go back and forth on this board for a year, and I can't help but get involved everytime. To be really impartial (as if thats possible, you may already know who I favor) stack up the Geraldine Fibbers, or the Nels Cline Singers against ANY Jay Bennett solo release. I've never heard any of Jay's solo stuff, but the Fibbers are my favorite band of all time. To be fair, you should narrow the choice down to Butch, because that's the only album Nels played on. But it's a masterpiece and the 6 or 7 GF shows I saw rank at the top of my list of memorable concerts. And then there are the Singers, the Nels Cline Trio, Scarnella, Destroy all Nels Cline...pretty much anything Nels (or Carla Bozulich) touches turns to gold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam2 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I never said Nels was better in all genres. I said overall he's a better guitar player. You misinterpret with malicious intent. What are you talking about? That's basically exactly what you said. I keep arguing that Jay is better at the country/rock style. I like Nels, and he is a lot better than Jay at some styles. But there is no argument that he plays his style better than Nels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam2 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I have seen this thing go back and forth on this board for a year, and I can't help but get involved everytime. To be really impartial (as if thats possible, you may already know who I favor) stack up the Geraldine Fibbers, or the Nels Cline Singers against ANY Jay Bennett solo release. I will tell you what I think about that contest, but I want to hear your opinions first. I really don't get why you would compare these. Jay's solo albums focus on his songwriting, not the guitar playing. However, since you did bring it up, take a listen to Jay's solo in "It's Hard". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 What are you talking about? That's basically exactly what you said. I keep arguing that Jay is better at the country/rock style. I like Nels, and he is a lot better than Jay at some styles. But there is no argument that he plays his style better than Nels. Ah, how we all love picking out phrases and make them mean what we want them to mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I agree that Nels plays his style better than Jay (obviously) and he sounds good in Wilco. It just bothers me that fans of Nels won't admit that he can't play the old stuff anywhere near as good as Jay. I've been a fan of Nels since before Wilco even existed, and I'll go on the record: Nels does not excel at country rock guitar playing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
borracho Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I told Jeff after last night's show in Wichita to "not let Nels go at any time." He said he wouldn't, that they keep him locked up in the bus after the shows... it was so exciting to watch him up close last night - he adds such incredible atmosphere to the songs... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 A strange thing with me about Nels in Wilco is that live in person he sounds great, but on live recordings he makes me want to puke. I really don't understand why. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IamJacksName Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 The band really is the most dynamic they've ever been live, and I really enjoy Nels' guitar playing. Impossible Germany, Company In My Back, and Ashes Of American Flags wouldn't be half as great live without him. I still sort of question what he will be like on record instead of live. p.s. His playing on Kamera at the October 10th show is really great also. He made Kamera a completely new song for me at this show! So glad I heard him play it live. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam2 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If you listen back to the studio recordings Jay did with Wilco, you will not find overplaying or "playing some 'rock' lick" that doesn't fit the song. For example, his guitar on I Got You. That lick that comes in at the first chorus is a perfect example of how subtle his playing can be, how perfectly placed it is. The only way anyone can accuse him of not fitting into the song perfectly is if you only listen to the live shows. He did tend to let loose a bit too often live sometimes. and once again, I love Nels. He is perfect for the current Wilco. But there is no way he can play like Jay (refer to the Roger McGuinn & Wilco version of "Mr. Spaceman"... damn!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 can not or does not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If you listen back to the studio recordings Jay did with Wilco, you will not find overplaying or "playing some 'rock' lick" that doesn't fit the song. For example, his guitar on I Got You. That lick that comes in at the first chorus is a perfect example of how subtle his playing can be, how perfectly placed it is. The only way anyone can accuse him of not fitting into the song perfectly is if you only listen to the live shows. He did tend to let loose a bit too often live sometimes. and once again, I love Nels. He is perfect for the current Wilco. But there is no way he can play like Jay (refer to the Roger McGuinn & Wilco version of "Mr. Spaceman"... damn!) I'm guessing you don't understand we're talking solely talking live here, because Nels has only appeared on one studio recording? and, secondly, does Nels even have to bother with how Jay played, considering that one, they come from opposite ends of the music spectrum, and two, the fact that Nels outplays Jay in everything but that one small niche that is pretty much dead? no. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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